The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
Rasins:
I think the thing we are forgetting here is that Saints are labeled Saint AFTER they have died.
Having the power to lead a mob against BCV Elders is an indication that someone could be a Saint, but I still think that being part of the organization (the Church) that "owns" the copyright to the term Saint is a pretty big deal when you are trying to apply it to other people.
By definition, only a follower of TWG or TWC can be a saint.
This doesn't mean that others cannot throw around saint-like powers.
I know I'm kind of wrapped around the axel with this definition, but I think it's important.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Rasins on June 28, 2017, 06:54:59 PM ---I think the thing we are forgetting here is that Saints are labeled Saint AFTER they have died.
--- End quote ---
I dont think that has bearing anymore; we're agreed that in the they have to be Alive yes? Unless we're considering the definition of Saint to require the you "Die And Get Better" like Harry?
--- Quote ---
but I still think that being part of the organization (the Church) that "owns" the copyright to the term Saint is a pretty big deal when you are trying to apply it to other people.
--- End quote ---
This feels like a logical loop. Your saying it would be a big deal because TWG "owns" the term Saint, but that assumed ownership would exist if you already Consider TWG to be a Big Deal. Historically/RL the term Saint is not at all restricted to Christianity; that's just the most common (and arguably most formal) use of the term that drove it's globalization.
wyltok:
--- Quote from: Rasins on June 28, 2017, 06:54:59 PM ---I think the thing we are forgetting here is that Saints are labeled Saint AFTER they have died.
Having the power to lead a mob against BCV Elders is an indication that someone could be a Saint, but I still think that being part of the organization (the Church) that "owns" the copyright to the term Saint is a pretty big deal when you are trying to apply it to other people.
By definition, only a follower of TWG or TWC can be a saint.
This doesn't mean that others cannot throw around saint-like powers.
I know I'm kind of wrapped around the axel with this definition, but I think it's important.
--- End quote ---
I am not forgetting it, I am intentionally ignoring it. In this particular topic, my interest is in how someone can obtain the power to lead a mob against an Elder of the BCV (~30 of them can take on Mab and at least tie, if not win) and hope to win. There are known avenues to power (being a wizard or a Knight, for example) that can handle this. What did Jim mean when he said a "saint" could also pull it off? If we assume he didn't mean a dead person as a leader (a reasonable assumption in my mind), then we have to assume Jim is working from a definition of the term "saint" that deviates from what's traditionally accepted. Therefore, we are trying to define the bounds of what seems reasonable for this new definition of saint.
Going back to the old definition of saint, while a good starting point, does not appear reasonable to me as a final destination, if we are already throwing out one of the main requirements (being dead), what other requirements can we also throw out? Does it need to be a follower of TWG, or can there be saints from other religions? Is a pious life (however that is defined by each religion) necessary to be a Saint, or just calling upon a Higher Power in a time of need? Is Faith required? These are all interesting questions to ponder precisely because we know that the traditional definition of sainthood does not apply.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Going back to the old definition of saint, while a good starting point, does not appear reasonable to me as a final destination, if we are already throwing out one of the main requirements (being dead), what other requirements can we also throw out? Does it need to be a follower of TWG, or can there be saints from other religions? Is a pious life (however that is defined by each religion) necessary to be a Saint, or just calling upon a Higher Power in a time of need? Is Faith required? These are all interesting questions to ponder precisely because we know that the traditional definition of sainthood does not apply.
--- End quote ---
And if we look at the history of actual saints, they may not fit any of the above but because of one act make the big leagues.
groinkick:
If Chauncy was telling the truth about the werewolf curse, I wonder why a Saint was cast it, and why TWG would allow it.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version