The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote from: ClintACK on June 26, 2017, 02:11:36 PM ---Great way of putting it.
So... could we say that Michael was a Saint in Skin Game, while he was walking around with Uriel's Grace?
Perhaps that's what a Saint is -- the risky (requiring mutual trust) move of temporarily handing an angel's grace to a free-willed mortal.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it is more about Heaven trusting Michael than the other way around given the consequences if Michael abused what was loaned to him.. Then again, given the nature of what soulfire is, one might say that Heaven also trusts Harry, even though he and his faith are far from perfect.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 26, 2017, 04:22:55 AM ---I think trust is a good word to summarize this debate. Harry knows there's an entity out there that most likely created everything. He just doesn't trust it.
That's the big difference between him and Michael. Both can talk about TWG and believe TWG exists, but Michael trusts TWG, and Harry doesn't. That's what faith is all about. Not knowing, not acknowledging, but trusting.
--- End quote ---
That's a really great way to put it. Helps me pin down the difference between Harry and Shiro as well, for all his accidental induction into the faith, I think Shiro had come to entirely trust TWG and their cause. Sanya's getting there Im guessing, we havent really heard from him much since he started carrying the whole weight of it.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 26, 2017, 11:31:58 AM ---I think that is still a gray area, no faith required perhaps to use it, but to use it well, one has to understand it, where it comes from, and a bit of faith is required there. I think that is why Uriel never gave him a manual with the gift, those things Harry has to find out for himself.
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Would you say Harry was having some faith in the Fallen angels when throwing around hellfire?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 26, 2017, 06:14:46 PM ---Would you say Harry was having some faith in the Fallen angels when throwing around hellfire?
--- End quote ---
That's a different tack entirely: The Fallen /did/ give Harry a Manual, just one with a very steep subscription cost. :P
Uriel's side cares about Faith and Free Will, but the other side only cares as much as they have to, the rest is all Temptation Flavored.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 26, 2017, 07:01:22 PM ---That's a different tack entirely: The Fallen /did/ give Harry a Manual, just one with a very steep subscription cost. :P
Uriel's side cares about Faith and Free Will, but the other side only cares as much as they have to, the rest is all Temptation Flavored.
Exactly, the more Harry tossed around hellfire the better as far as the Fallen were concerned. If I remember correctly it also had an addictive quality about it that gave Harry real anger management problems that he wasn't even aware of. Murphy did act the friend in that case and pointed out stuff he was doing that he wasn't even aware of.
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