The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Avernite on June 25, 2017, 04:24:01 PM ---So...
Might we be at an impasse because one side assumes Faith is a necessity for Sainthood (and specific Faith in TWG, to be precise) while the other side is focusing on how actions speak louder than words (and than thoughts, and than Faith)?
Because that would be quite funny, if we reproduced one of the great divides of real-world Christianity.
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My opinion is a Saint is directly connected to TWG. It is probably a person that is empowered by TwG, or Angel to balance the scales. The person in question would also probably have to Trust (real definition of faith) in the power they were granted, similar to Harry's Trust in magic.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 26, 2017, 04:17:01 AM ---My opinion is a Saint is directly connected to TWG. It is probably a person that is empowered by TwG, or Angel to balance the scales. The person in question would also probably have to Trust (real definition of faith) in the power they were granted, similar to Harry's Trust in magic.
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I think trust is a good word to summarize this debate. Harry knows there's an entity out there that most likely created everything. He just doesn't trust it.
That's the big difference between him and Michael. Both can talk about TWG and believe TWG exists, but Michael trusts TWG, and Harry doesn't. That's what faith is all about. Not knowing, not acknowledging, but trusting.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 26, 2017, 04:22:55 AM ---I think trust is a good word to summarize this debate. Harry knows there's an entity out there that most likely created everything. He just doesn't trust it.
That's the big difference between him and Michael. Both can talk about TWG and believe TWG exists, but Michael trusts TWG, and Harry doesn't. That's what faith is all about. Not knowing, not acknowledging, but trusting.
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Well said
Mira:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 26, 2017, 04:22:55 AM ---I think trust is a good word to summarize this debate. Harry knows there's an entity out there that most likely created everything. He just doesn't trust it.
That's the big difference between him and Michael. Both can talk about TWG and believe TWG exists, but Michael trusts TWG, and Harry doesn't. That's what faith is all about. Not knowing, not acknowledging, but trusting.
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I think he is getting there as far as trust goes, and thank you for coming up with what I think happened in Cold Days with Mother Winter. Before that moment, Harry would use soulfire as needed to turbocharge spells as needed all the while fearing he'd use it up and his soul. This lack of trust in his gift held him back, in that moment in Cold Days he began to trust, that is why it was different.. He will never be like Michael, few men or women are.
--- Quote ---Soulfire isn't faith based magic. It's a power source (his own soul) he was granted the ability to tap into in order to balance the scales. No faith required.
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I think that is still a gray area, no faith required perhaps to use it, but to use it well, one has to understand it, where it comes from, and a bit of faith is required there. I think that is why Uriel never gave him a manual with the gift, those things Harry has to find out for himself.
ClintACK:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 26, 2017, 04:17:01 AM ---My opinion is a Saint is directly connected to TWG. It is probably a person that is empowered by TwG, or Angel to balance the scales. The person in question would also probably have to Trust (real definition of faith) in the power they were granted, similar to Harry's Trust in magic.
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Great way of putting it.
So... could we say that Michael was a Saint in Skin Game, while he was walking around with Uriel's Grace?
Perhaps that's what a Saint is -- the risky (requiring mutual trust) move of temporarily handing an angel's grace to a free-willed mortal.
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