The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
WAG of fate. spoilers!
Shecky:
--- Quote from: jb2point0 on January 31, 2013, 05:16:18 PM ---I was going along the lines of Nemesis being a deity, and Outsiders are more or less Old Ones and their minions, so a slight misstep in my wording.
What I'm saying is, I think the Outsiders were not always Outsiders, their removal from reality to beyond the gates is what made them Outsiders, and this removal is some process that may occur to different entities at different points in history.
--- End quote ---
Interesting idea. A bit our-universe-centric, though; it would seem to indicate that the Outside exists not in and of itself but purely in relation to our universe. I see no reason to assume that Outsiders don't come from the Outside.
(I think the use of the term "Outside" is part of the problem here. It does implicitly state that the Outside is defined by its relation to our universe. The problem, then, is one of lack of objective frame of reference; I suspect that "Outsiders" simply call their universe "the universe" and ours "the Outside", as the perspective of here-vs.-there [i.e., the inescapable omnipresence of subjectivity] defines the way we think about everything.)
jb2point0:
--- Quote from: Shecky on January 31, 2013, 06:20:42 PM ---Interesting idea. A bit our-universe-centric, though; it would seem to indicate that the Outside exists not in and of itself but purely in relation to our universe. I see no reason to assume that Outsiders don't come from the Outside.
(I think the use of the term "Outside" is part of the problem here. It does implicitly state that the Outside is defined by its relation to our universe. The problem, then, is one of lack of objective frame of reference; I suspect that "Outsiders" simply call their universe "the universe" and ours "the Outside", as the perspective of here-vs.-there [i.e., the inescapable omnipresence of subjectivity] defines the way we think about everything.)
--- End quote ---
Beyond the gates, to my understanding, means outside of reality. I don't think we can be sure yet if it's outside of OUR reality, or outside of ALL realities. We know that there are beings/immortals who exist and understand existence beyond a single universe, there may be foils to those beings on our side beyond the Outer Gates, meaning the Outer Gates aren't bound to a single universe, but the battle to keep them out exists in all universes.
I guess a question I'd have for Jim is, did multiple universes always exist in the DV, or only once mortals and free will came into being?
Shecky:
--- Quote from: jb2point0 on January 31, 2013, 06:30:25 PM ---Beyond the gates, to my understanding, means outside of reality. I don't think we can be sure yet if it's outside of OUR reality, or outside of ALL realities. We know that there are beings/immortals who exist and understand existence beyond a single universe, there may be foils to those beings on our side beyond the Outer Gates, meaning the Outer Gates aren't bound to a single universe, but the battle to keep them out exists in all universes.
I guess a question I'd have for Jim is, did multiple universes always exist in the DV, or only once mortals and free will came into being?
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I see where you're heading, and it's not a bad idea at all. After all, Bob did mention that every imaginable universe pretty much has to exist, and that could have a bearing on the creative power of thought/will.
wizard nelson:
--- Quote from: Shecky on January 31, 2013, 04:02:07 PM ---Only problem is that the original Nemesis was clearly in the Greek pantheon and thus among the "old gods" to which the texts have made multiple references. Or are you postulating Outsiders spending enough time on Earth in the classical era to earn reputations as gods alongside the "regular" pantheon?
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well its an idea of mine that beings of a certain caliber can continue to exist outside our reality. things that lose their grip on reality through the oblivion war exist as a shadow of themselves. simply that before an inside existed outsiders came set up shop and inadvertantly created our reality(this is what appears to have happened in Cthulhu Mythos)
also this would explain DR if everything on it was destroyed utterly then chronos(or whichever titan is in DR) and all the prisoners ghosts suddenly pop up outside the gates ready to reinforce theassault. not sure you can kill time without seriously screwing with realty though
rekshek:
--- Quote from: GrandPanjandrum on January 31, 2013, 05:09:26 PM ---I think you could make a pretty good argument that Mother Winter was behind the construction of Demonreach (if she's Nyx) since she used to have a home in Tartarus. It might, also, be the reason Harry needs to go to Hades, since Tartarus is Hades' basement.
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I have a topic on here that MW was responsible for all the prisoners in Demonreach, more and more I like the idea that she is responsible for Merlin making it and her jailing them there for a reason.
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