The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Duels between mortal Practitioners and the Law of Magic
jhosmer1:
Given the existence of the First Law, I don't think that White Council Wizards would ever duel each other to the death with magic. It just wouldn't be part of their culture.
Now, I could see all sorts of duels that don't involve killing to settle things between wizards, and of course they can always duel with swords or weapons.
(Now I'm reminded of Big Trouble in Little China... "You never could beat me, Egg Chen.")
meh:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 28, 2010, 04:07:34 PM ---Firstly, that's debatable, since creating Golems almost always involves summoning a spirit to possess them, and using summoned entities to kill does break the Laws.
--- End quote ---
Then figure out how to change that 'almost'. Advance your magic tech. :)
--- Quote ---And secondly, and not debatably, we're talking about a formal duel using energy as a weapon, where golems are certainly not going to be allowed.
--- End quote ---
And if non-spirit golems are built then formal duels are obsolete, so you see the point of debate, I'm sure.
--- Quote ---And this is just flat-out wrong. The Laws are about intent, if you intend to kill someone it doesn't matter how indirectly you do it, you get Lawbreaker, and the Wardens will kill you if they catch you. Re-read the section on the Laws in YS, ditto the section on Thaumaturgy.
--- End quote ---
If the Laws are about intent, then why was Molly ever brought to trial? :)
If the Laws work the way you say they work, then there is a huge logical flaw in the concept of Blackstaff.
Witness:
Time A: I use Blackstaff to zorch a section of railroad over a bridge, leaving it looking ok but fundamentally weak, intending to kill someone on train.
Time A+30minutes: I lose Blackstaff to someone else.
Time A+2hrs: Train hits bridge, peeps die.
Do the Laws apply or do they not?
Falar:
... Because she intended to screw up someone's mind? I mean. It's not like she accidentally compelled him to do something. She looked at both their brains and said, "Aw, to hell with what they're brains are going to do, I'm going to make them do what I want them to do." Oh, yeah, you can say it was for their own good and all that jazz, but when you get it down to brass tacks, she invaded their minds (that's Law 3 for you) and then enthralled them to her decision of what is right and good and just (that's Law 4 for you).
meh:
So all I need to do is mindream a magical critter like Arianna and then use /her/ magic against your dueling wizard and there's nothing the Laws can do about it.
That's a reasonable way to create golems, sure, thanks.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: meh on April 28, 2010, 04:15:57 PM ---Then figure out how to change that 'almost'. Advance your magic tech. :)
--- End quote ---
Possible, but not easy. And I think the only way you can do that is probably by building what amounts to a magical AI...which means it might not be willing to kill for you.
--- Quote from: meh on April 28, 2010, 04:15:57 PM ---And if non-spirit golems are built then formal duels are obsolete, so you see the point of debate, I'm sure.
--- End quote ---
No, they aren't. And even if they were, look at the title of this thread. If it's not a valid part of dueling, then why are you even bringing it up?
--- Quote from: meh on April 28, 2010, 04:15:57 PM --- If the Laws are about intent, then why was Molly ever brought to trial? :)
--- End quote ---
See YS p. 232-234. In short, I'm not talking about intentions (why you do something), I'm talking about intent (choosing to do it). Molly chose to violate a man's mind, just like someone using a weapon's grade Entropy Curse chooses to kill, neither of their motives matter.
And read p. 296 as well, the Weapon's Grade Entropy Curse breaks both the First AND Seventh Laws, so even with a different power source, it would clearly break the First. Also note that Harry warned those using it that they were breaking the Laws of Magic long before he knew how they were powering it.
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