Author Topic: Jim interview  (Read 10176 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2022, 05:48:09 AM »
Maybe not. Maybe when there is no Warden, Alfred gets to be ACTING Warden. If the Warden must approve squashing certain invaders, Alfred cannot do it without permission. If there is no Warden, he grants HIMSELF permission, and stops Maeve.

However Alfred's powers are very limited if there is no Warden.  When there was no Warden he could send out vibs so that humans were uncomfortable on the island and didn't stay, he could conceal the fact that the prison was there, but how much he could prevent an assault without a Warden remains unclear.  Remember he seemed relieved when Harry took up the mantle and that most of that year before Skin Game Harry's time was spent turning on island defenses that only the Warden could turn on.  Justine/He Who Walks Beside needed Harry to get past those defenses.

Offline g33k

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2022, 07:32:30 AM »
Maybe not. Maybe when there is no Warden, Alfred gets to be ACTING Warden. If the Warden must approve squashing certain invaders, Alfred cannot do it without permission. If there is no Warden, he grants HIMSELF permission, and stops Maeve.

Alfred has some power, and some discretion in using it.
The Warden can unlock/activate/whatever far, far more.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2022, 11:57:59 AM »
Maybe not. Maybe when there is no Warden, Alfred gets to be ACTING Warden. If the Warden must approve squashing certain invaders, Alfred cannot do it without permission. If there is no Warden, he grants HIMSELF permission, and stops Maeve.

It would depend upon the protocols given to Alfred by the last Warden. If it was to allow the Winter Queens onto the island but not into the prison, this would make sense pre nemfected Maeve, given the The OG Merlins relationship with Mab. Someone entering without a Queen would end up a smear, unless they arrived in sufficient force to overwhelm Alfred on his current protocols. This would explain the intent to infect a Winter Queen, otherwise the elaborate ruses employed by Maeve to get enough Fae to  stalemate Alfred had to be employed. Alfred cannot give himself permission, but can act within his standing orders, and is subject to those limitations . Mab trod carefully and arrived by boat simply because she could not be sure Harry hadn’t changed the protocols given his antipathy to her.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2022, 01:14:58 PM »
Alfred wasn't stalemated in Cold Days, Mab tells you  as much. The whole bunch could have easily found themselves in either a cell or a grave.

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2022, 03:43:13 PM »
Alfred wasn't stalemated in Cold Days, Mab tells you  as much. The whole bunch could have easily found themselves in either a cell or a grave.

Ah, but as of Turn Coat the Island had a Warden again, Harry didn't know that until he woke up on the Island at the end of Ghost Story.. And Alfred didn't make much of a move until the end of Cold Days, when Harry warned Mab that on hisorder, Alfred would put her in the slammer.  Until  Harry took full control over his Wardenship, the Island was vulnerable, and Maeve knew that, that's why she chose that moment to make her move.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2022, 04:34:18 PM »
Alfred needs orders to go into higher than minimum security. Harry states in SK that he could have shut down the CD attack by himself if he had had the knowledge he gained from his extended stay afterwards.

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2022, 05:13:28 PM »
Alfred needs orders to go into higher than minimum security. Harry states in SK that he could have shut down the CD attack by himself if he had had the knowledge he gained from his extended stay afterwards.
Exactly, that is why the Island was vulnerable to attack from Maeve and the Outsiders.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2022, 05:22:15 PM »
I'll let the text speak for itself.
Quote
Mab nodded her head slightly, and descended to the ground. From me, she turned to Demonreach. “I thank you for your patience and your assistance in this matter. You could have reacted differently but chose not to. I am aware of the decision. It will not be forgotten.” Demonreach bowed its head, barely, a gesture of acknowledgment, not cooperation or compliance. Once she had seen that, something seemed to ease out of Mab. It was hard to say what gave me that impression, yet I had the same sense of relief I would have felt upon seeing someone remove his hand from the grip of a firearm.

Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (pp. 501-502). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2022, 03:47:41 AM »
However Alfred's powers are very limited if there is no Warden.  When there was no Warden he could send out vibs so that humans were uncomfortable on the island and didn't stay, he could conceal the fact that the prison was there, but how much he could prevent an assault without a Warden remains unclear.  Remember he seemed relieved when Harry took up the mantle and that most of that year before Skin Game Harry's time was spent turning on island defenses that only the Warden could turn on.  Justine/He Who Walks Beside needed Harry to get past those defenses.

I think perhaps the "evil vibes" defense were enough. They left, didn't they? You do not need to shoot a housefly with a shotgun, even if you have one handy.

Alfred likes a purpose. Plus... maybe he feels good about adding inmates. Under Harry he got to add Ethniu, and at least temporarily Thomas.  Maybe he can't jail people without orders, and he is reluctant to blow them away.

Plus, didn't we hear about a failsafe? I have to assume Merlin puts one in. I would. 

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2022, 10:24:48 AM »
I think perhaps the "evil vibes" defense were enough. They left, didn't they? You do not need to shoot a housefly with a shotgun, even if you have one handy.

Alfred likes a purpose. Plus... maybe he feels good about adding inmates. Under Harry he got to add Ethniu, and at least temporarily Thomas.  Maybe he can't jail people without orders, and he is reluctant to blow them away.

Plus, didn't we hear about a failsafe? I have to assume Merlin puts one in. I would.

But even failsafes have to be controlled, that requires judgement.  It is like the bounty hunter robot in The Mandalorian, when things got hairy it put itself in self destruct mode, and Din had to repeatedly talk it out of it, because there was another solution.  Eventually it did self destruct to save Din and Grogu and company, but under their guidance, because there was no other way.

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2022, 10:29:33 AM »
I'll let the text speak for itself.

Perhaps, but I will contrast that with what Mab did at the beginning of Skin Game, when she approached the Island, she did it by boat and asked permission before she stepped foot on it. Why? because Harry was in charge now, the defenses were now back in place.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2022, 01:09:19 PM »
I think perhaps the "evil vibes" defense were enough. They left, didn't they? You do not need to shoot a housefly with a shotgun, even if you have one handy.

Alfred likes a purpose. Plus... maybe he feels good about adding inmates. Under Harry he got to add Ethniu, and at least temporarily Thomas.  Maybe he can't jail people without orders, and he is reluctant to blow them away.

Plus, didn't we hear about a failsafe? I have to assume Merlin puts one in. I would.

Alfred is a completist, and Harry got him the Last Titan, now if he could just get that last pesky Naagloshii….

Alfred was stalemated in Cold Days because of the limitation he was acting under, he couldn’t bring his full power to bear.

Mab I think survived because of her tie to the Warden. Without the Warden also having the Winter Knight Mantle (which he had to voluntarily assume) Mab would likely be having to reconstitute herself, she presented as a ally of the Warden because of it. That gave Alfred more leeway than with an hostile or neutral. Even so, Mab was not sure how far she could go, and Harry could revoke that status at any time.


Offline g33k

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2022, 05:20:51 PM »
It would depend upon the protocols given to Alfred by the last Warden...

I find very little to suggest the spirit retains any per-warden protocols past the tenure of any given Warden.

I suspect each successive Warden finds the island's "protocols" much as originally established by OG Merlin.

OTOH, there also isn't much to suggest my own "revert to Merlin's settings" belief.
The texts (and WoJ, afaik) don't really address this, so far.

Offline Dina

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2022, 08:52:35 PM »
Alfred is a completist, and Harry got him the Last Titan, now if he could just get that last pesky Naagloshii….

I have a laugh imagining Alfred catching Pokemon around the island  ;D
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: Jim interview
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2022, 01:01:11 PM »
Quote
Alfred was stalemated in Cold Days because of the limitation he was acting under, he couldn’t bring his full power to bear.

Which is why the island needs a Warden, and why Alfred was relieved when Harry became Warden.  I'm not sure one can assign emotions to Alfred, but he is aware enough to know the island, i.e. the prison when it has no Warden is more vulnerable under his limited protection than when it does have a Warden.