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1
Calendar Event Discussion / Bitten Books Q&A
« on: January 04, 2013, 03:25:48 PM »
The Bitten Books Q&A for Cold Days was cancelled. Any chance it will be rescheduled, and if yes, when?

2
She, most definitely, is dead.  Of course, now that she holds The Word of Kemmerler, she can probably improve her color and smell a bit.  Mavra is Morgana le Fay  *gasp*. 

It seems to me that she wanted to "outlive" the original Merlin for some reason.  So she permitted herself to be taken by a Black Court Master.  Now, she intends to use the premier "Journal of Necromantic Medicine" to return to her live self.  In the interim, she has been spending her time tearing down all that Merlin might hold dear:

1.  She attempted to secure Excalibur by trading with her own Athame. Thwarted by Harry.
2.  She used the Red Court as a cat's paw to start a war with Merlin's White Council (hoping to destroy it). Again, thwarted by Harry.
3.  She attempted to use Outsiders/ sorcerers/ and thralls to destroy Demonreach, because it is one of Merlin's most exquisite accomplishments.  Once again, thwarted by Harry.

In Blood Rites, Mavra shows up and stupidly attacks Harry, Thomas and Mouse for no reason with no result.  The purpose was to let Harry know she's in town, and a challenge to hunt her down.  She doesn't come out and play herself, because the whole basis of her visiting Chicago was to lead him by the nose to her lair.  Assume he would bring allies, and compromise those allies with photos.  Murphy worked out perfectly for leverage to secure Kemmerler's Word.  She needs it to...well...come back to life.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.  Of course, Merlin anticipated this and is sleeping deep down in Demonreach well waiting.  Not one to go in his sleep, indeed.  Can we read your journals now, Ebenezer? :o

Truly, I think you can find direct and indirect connections to Mavra/ Morgana le Fay in every single book in the series so far.

3
I propose two additions to the forum policies:
  • Sentences start with a capital letter.
  • Sentences end with a punctuation mark.

It will make communication easier and more enjoyable on the boards.


4
DF Reference Collection / [Spoilers for all books] Theories index
« on: December 12, 2012, 08:00:23 PM »
Theories index

What is it?

An attempt to gather all the theories concerning the Dresden Files. This is NOT a place to make new theories.  All theories should be posted in their own thread.

How can I help?

Yes, Cthulhu has a hat. The editor said so.

The only way to keep this thread up-to-date and exhaustive is to share the work between the forum members. I would be glad if some forum members could take the time to share their theories on this thread.

Only theories which have already been widely discussed/criticized by the community can be nominated: typically, that means at least a thread dedicated to it.

A theory is expected to come as a one sentence proposition (it can be right or wrong).

BAD:
Why has Harry build LC? (That's not a statement, it can't be right or wrong)

GOOD:
 A. A. Summers is Aurora's daughter (Slate as the father?)

BETTER: add a link to the theory
A. A. Summers is Aurora's daughter (Slate as the father?) (source)

BEST: add a link to the profile of the user who proposed the theory
A. A. Summers is Aurora's daughter (Slate as the father?) (source)-GrandPanjandrum

I reserve the right to refuse a theory if no link is given with it.

How are the theories organized?

The theories are gathered in three different categories:

Mystery solving theories :
those are theories trying to solve a problem that Jim has been specifically dangling right before our noses. Example: "Mab fixed Little Chicago". Harry and Bob spend many lines explaining that there is a mystery to solve. Those have far better chances of success, and have less unexpected solution.

WAG (Wild Ass Guess) :
 that's a theory which basically creates a problem where there may be none, and then solves it. Example: "Harry=Kemmler". We know who Harry is, we know who Kemmler is, so there was no real problem in the first place. Those theories have lower probabilities of success, but when they are right it's quite spectacular.

Mini-theories
not plot-relevant, and few argument for/against.

Inside a category
Subjects are ordered alphabetically

Inside a subject
Theories are ordered by credibility.

Conventions
Theories about published books in mystery-solving section, future ones in WAG.

How are the theories rated?

I gave the theories ratings to give newcomers a vague idea of the strength of a theory according to the prevailing consensus on the boards. I could not (I had not the courage ;)) to organize a poll for all theories, so I classified them in a very subjective manner in four categories:
75%-100% chances of being true
35%-75% chances of being true
15%-35% chances of being true
0%-15% chances of being true

I still followed some principles:

Green is for nearly certain
 
I gave green rating only there is WOJ (Word of Jim) supporting it (Mab captured Molly), or if a scene in the books shows it (Odin leader of the Hunt).

Blue is the default for great mystery solving theories

Ex: Cowl=Simon

Orange is the default for great  WAGs

Ex: Infected objects come the hoard of Siriothiax. The rating may seem harsh, but those theories tend to fail: for instance the 'Statue in Graceland was made with Demonreach's stone' was great, but failed simply because Jim hadn't thought about it.

All time-travel/mind-wipe are viewed with suspicion

I gave a red rating to all Time-travel theories, except the Little Chicago one which is very strong and solving a mystery.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"(Sagan)

When rating, I'm not measuring the quality of the theory, but comparing the strength of the claim to the evidence provided.

Ex: my Blackstaff= Raven Banner, where I'm actually arguing that a walking stick in wood is a banner, gets immediately thrown into red.

How to change the rating of a theory?

The easiest way: ask me on this thread, I'll comply in most cases.

The best way: make a poll. Any poll with more than 20 answers supersedes the previous rating.
 
Who can edit the index?

Serack, Knnn, TheCuriousFan, Elegast.

5
Here comes a five part theory.  8)

The first two are stolen from this thread, the last three are mine.

Mother Winter, the Blackstaff, Death and the Raven Banner
On the natures of theories

The theories on this forum can be divided in two big categories:

"solution looking for a problem": that's a theory which basically creates a problem where there is none, and then solves it. Example: "Harry=Kemmler". We know who is Harry, we know who is Kemmler, so there was no real problem in the first place. Those theories have low probabilities of success, but when there are right it's quite spectacular.

"problem looking for a solution" : those are theories trying to solve a problem that Jim has been specifically dangling right before our noses. Example: "Mab fixed LC". Harry and Bob spend many lines explaining that there is a mystery to solve. Those have far better chances of success, and have less unexpected solution.

Concerning that post, we have three quarters responding to a mystery, one quarter WAG.

The mysteries are:

Where does the blackstaff comes from?
Quote from: WOJ
Q:  Can you tell us a little more about the black staff?
A:   The staff keeps Eb from going crazy, mostly.  Also, the White Council stole it from someone.  And they really want it back.

What is the real/most important name of Mother Winter?
Quote from: Cold Days
But youve only guessed the name of one of her masks not our most powerful name.

Where in celtic lore does the blackstaff shows up?
Quote from: WOJ
How long has the White Council had the Blackstaff?
Look for Celtic Lore around 1065 ad.


The Blackstaff is Mother's winter walking stick (reasonable theory)

So we have been looking for the Blackstaff's origine. In Cold Days there was a very interesting remark from Mother Summer:
Quote from: CD
“It is her way,” Mother Summer said, smiling. “She rarely leaves our cottage anymore. She lost her walking stick.
Here is the description of the Blackstaff:
Quote
Ebenezar McCoy extended his left hand and spoke another word, and darkness swirled from the shadows and condensed into a staff of dark, twisted wood, unmarked by any kind of carving whatsoever.

It fits well: it's a simple wood stick, it's black, which respect Mother Winter color theme, it corresponds to her dark nature.

Mother Winter is Death (possible but speculative) (Dust Bunny was probably the first to have this idea)

We know that Mother Winter has a secret identity.

Harry has already found some her lesser names:
Quote from: Cold Days
Athropos! Skuld! Mother Winter, I summon thee!

Athropos:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Atropos or Aisa was the oldest of the Three Fates, and was known as the "inflexible" or "inevitable." It was Atropos who chose the mechanism of death and ended the life of each mortal by cutting their thread with her "abhorred shears."
Skuld:
Quote from: Wikipedia
Skuld (the name possibly means "debt" or "future")[1] is a Norn in Norse mythology. Along with Urðr (Old Norse "fate"[2]) and Verðandi (possibly "happening" or "present"[3]), Skuld makes up a trio of Norns that are described as deciding the fates of people.

Arthropos is the fate ending the lives of mortal, Skuld has a less defined role, but the norms as a whole were also linked to fate and death.

In Summer Knight: she says:
Quote from: Summer Knight
"An unmaking, boy. I am the unmaker, the destroyer. It is what I am. Bound within those threads is the power to undo any enchantment done. Touch the cloth to that which must be undone. Unravel the threads. It will be so."

Then there is her looks:
Quote from: Summer Knight
I knelt in front of Mother Winter's rocking chair. I couldn't see her, even from here. Even her feet were covered by layers of dark cloth. But on her lap rested a pair of knitting needles, and a simple square of cloth, trailing thick threads of grey, undyed wool. Mother Winter reached down with her withered hands, and took up a pair of rusted shears. She cut the trailing threads and passed me the cloth.

So what is Mother Winter true identity? What's particularly annoying is the 'our' name, meaning the name should fit for both mothers.
Several possibilities come to mind: Isis, some Indu or sumerian goddess, or even the WG. For me it's unlikely: Jim said he may not use indu deities, and I doubt that the mothers are mere deities. And there is absolutely nothing pointing to Isis for instance, or the WG. They seem to be force of nature (Mother Summer "it's not your" world), beyond good and evil:
Quote from: Cold Days
I was casting everything I had done, everything I believed, everything I had chosen everything I was against the will of an ancient being of darkness, terror, and malice, a fundamental power of the world.

Death is the solution, especially considering this clue:
Quote from: Cold Days
going to talk to Mother Winter was about half an inch shy of trying to call up Lucifer, or maybe Death itself (if there was such a being no one was really sure)

Then how do we solve the 'our' problem? By saying that life and death are the same thing, two sides of the same coin: everything which is alive will die, and everything that will die is alive. So Mother Winter is Death, and Mother Summer is the Mother Godess, Life, Gaia.

Now, consider this quote about the Blackstaff:
Quote from: Changes
Then he swept the Blackstaff from left to right, murmured a word, and ripped the life from a hundred men.
They just . . . died.

There was absolutely nothing to mark their deaths. No sign of pain. No struggle. No convulsion of muscles. No reaction at all. One moment they were firing wildly down at us—and the next, they simply—
Dropped.
Dead.
The old man turned to the other wall, and I saw two or three of the brighter soldiers throw their guns down and run. I don’t know if they made it, but the old man swept the Blackstaff through the air again, and the gunmen on that side of the field dropped dead where they stood.
My godmother watched it happen, and bounced and clapped her hands some more, as delighted as a child at the circus.
I stared for a second, shocked. Ebenezar had just shattered the First Law of Magic: Thou shalt not kill. He had used magic to directly end the life of another human being—nearly two hundred times. I mean, yes, I had known what his office allowed him to do. . . . But there was a big difference between appreciating a fact and seeing that terrible truth in motion.
The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible.
From left to right, that's the how you use a scythe.
 
Then we have this (many possible interpretations) WOJ:
Quote from: WOJ
Does the blackstaff have any powers that relate to the dead?
Other than making people dead?  Really, that's kind of the point [Crowd Laughs]  Really but the staff itself what it really does is it keeps Eb sane while he's doing insane things.  Lucky him, he gets to deal with a hideously guilty conscious and nightmares later, but that's better than later being like *Muahahahahahahahaha*  Which is sort of the other option if your going to go around using magic like that. 

So I think a strong case for Mother winter being Death.

I have another clue but I'll save it for later. ;)

How the Blackstaff works: by swallowing the soul (highly speculative)

Now this is pure WAG. Still I wanted to share it with you. You can skip to the next section if you want. ;D

There is a very interesting quote in Changes:
Quote from: Changes
The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible.
I also saw veins of venomous black begin to ooze their way over the old man’s hand, reaching up slowly, spreading to his wrist. He grimaced and held his left forearm with his right hand for a moment, then looked over his shoulder and said, “All right!”

Now that's really interesting. We have already seen exactly the same scene:
Quote from: Small Favor
That was when I realized a couple of things.
The silver energy construct that had gripped the Denarian was gone.
And I couldn’t feel my right hand.
I looked down in a panic, but found that it was still there, at least, flopping loosely at the end of my arm. I couldn’t feel anything below my wrist. My fingers were slightly curled and didn’t respond when I told them to move.

That was when Uriel gave Harry soulfire. In both cases there was a lose of control/sensation in the hand.

My WAG: the blackstaff takes away a bit of your soul, the part related to the act of evil you just commited. Then all those bits are stored in the Blackstaff, hence the alive part.

Note that for soulfire it was the right hand, for the blackstaff the left one.


The Blackstaff is the Raven Banner (insane?)

Now, time for some wild speculation.  ;D

The blackstaff is supposed to appear somewhere in celtic lore, around 1065.

Now there is an obvious solution: Dagda, the 'All Father', an Irish god, had a magical staff which would kill nine men at one end, and bring the dead back to life at the other. There's a real chance it's the blackstaff, but there are two problems: in doesn't show up in 1065 (that may be wrong, if anyone can correct, don't hesitate); and in the dresdenverse I suspect Odin and Dagda to be the same god. Odin had already a staff, Gungnir, and we saw it in Changes:
Quote from: Changes
The farthest grey figure, tall and lean, lifted his staff. I saw light gleam off of metal at one end of the staff, and then green lightning enfolded the length of wood as he thrust the metal end into the ground. He took the staff back—but the twisting length of green lightning stayed. He drove the staff down again about six feet away, and again lightning sheathed it. Then he removed the staff, reversed his grip on it, and with a sweep of his arm drew another shaft of lightning between the two upright columns of electricity, bridging the gap.

So odin has still his staff.

So where is the blackstaff?

My guess : it's the Raven banner of Harald Hardrada. The guy tried to invade England in 1066.

Quote from: Wikipedia
According to the Heimskringla, Harald Hardrada flew a raven banner called Landøyðan or "Land-waster"; whether this was the same banner as that flown by Sigurd of Northumbria is unclear. In a conversation between Harald and King Sweyn II of Denmark,
Sveinn asked Haraldr which of his possessions of his he valued most highly. He answered that it was his banner (merki), Landøyðan. Thereupon Sveinn asked what virtue it had to be accounted so valuable. Haraldr replied that it was prophesied that victory would be his before whom this banner was borne; and added that this had been the case ever since he had obtained it. Thereupon Sveinn said, "I shall believe that your flag has this virtue if you fight three battles with King Magnús, your kinsman, and are victorious in all."[29]
Years later, during Harald's invasion of England, Harald fought a pitched battle against two English earls outside York. Harald's Saga relates that when King Haraldr saw that the battle array of the English had come down along the ditch right opposite them, he had the trumpets blown and sharply urged his men to the attack, raising his banner called Landøyðan. And there so strong an attack was made by him that nothing held against it.[30]

Harald's army flew the banner at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, where it was carried by a warrior named Frírek. After Harald was struck by an arrow and killed, his army fought fiercely for possession of the banner, and some of them went berserk in their frenzy to secure the flag. In the end the "magic" of the banner failed, and the bulk of the Norwegian army was slaughtered, with only a few escaping to their ships.[31]

Quote from: Wikipedia
According to the Orkneyinga Saga, it was made for Sigurd the Stout by his mother, a völva or sorceress. She told him that the banner would "bring victory to the man it's carried before, but death to the one who carries it."

Looks similar to the way the staff was swallowing Eb's lifeforce:
Quote from: Changes
I also saw veins of venomous black begin to ooze their way over the old man’s hand, reaching up slowly, spreading to his wrist. He grimaced and held his left forearm with his right hand for a moment, then looked over his shoulder and said, “All right!”

The raven banner

The raven was the symbol of death of death and carnage in celtic lore. Still, two problem remains: a banner is not a staff, and the raven are linked to Odin too.

Those two objections can be partially resolved:

Concerning the banner, we know that Mother Winter likes to make some workings (SK) out of cloths. So maybe the raven banner was knitted by Death, and then carried on her staff.

The raven problem is half-solved by a scene in Sk:
Quote from: Summer Knight
A tattered-looking raven crouched on a nearby branch, its bead-black eyes gleaming.
"Cheery," Elaine said.
"Yeah. Very Baskerville." The carriage started up again, and I looked back to see it vanishing into the mist. "Okay. Where to now?"
At my words the raven let out a croaking caw. It shook itself, bits of moldy feather drifting down, and then beat its wings a few times and settled on another branch, almost out of sight.
"Harry," Elaine said.
"Yeah?"
"If you make any corny joke using the word 'nevermore,' I'm going to punch you. Do you understand me?"
"Never more," I confirmed. Elaine rolled her eyes. Then we both started off after the raven.
It led us through the cloudy landscape, flitting silently from tree to tree. We trudged behind it until more trees began to rise in the mist ahead of us, thickening. The ground grew softer, the air more wet, cloying. The raven let out another caw, then vanished into the trees and out of sight.
Quote from: Summer Knight
The lights turned out to be a pair of lit windows in a cottage that stood by itself on a slight rise of ground. Stone obelisks the size of coffins, some fallen and cracked and others still upright, stood scattered in loose rings around the mound. The raven rested on one of them, its beady eyes gleaming. It let out another croaking sound and flew through an open window of the cottage

The raven is the symbol of Mother Winter, which is also the final proof that she's Death.
 EDIT: a good remark from Cenphx:
A raven or crow is more than affiliated with death or a symbol thereof; its considered a psychopomp or a being which helps guide the way between the land of the living and the land of the dead.

And the raven guided Harry to the cottage...


EDIT:

A good catch from Vairelom:
Regarding the Raven Banner angle, consider the Stormcrow Banner that appears in the Codex Alera.  In that case, it isn't directly tied to a Celtic legendary object, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't a deliberate callback.  At a minimum, this should establish that JB is familiar with the right legends.
I'm going to keep this somewhat indirect to avoid CA spoilers, but one of the Imperial military symbols on banners is an eagle.  At a significant point, one of those banners ends up getting blasted by a gout of flame that chars the threads of the eagle, making the bird-shape all black.  The legion associated with that banner decides the banner is lucky and refuses to repair it, and they are given the name "the Stormcrows."

Crows/ravens are a major symbolic element of death (possibly the biggest one) in CA, and they appear in considerable numbers over any battlefield.  It's noted at one point that you can predict how major/bloody a particular battle will be by the size of the murder that appears in the skies.  Also, "crows" is a common expletive used in the series.  In context, adopting "Stormcrows" as your legion nickname is approximately as ballsy as picking "Legion of Death."

The 4 sets of teeth from Summer Knight

Oh, I think I've solved the four sets of teeth problem:
Quote from: Summer Knight
The place was all one room. The floor was wooden, though the boards looked weathe Red and dry. Shelves stood against the stone walls. A loom rested in the far corner, near the fireplace, a spinning wheel beside it. Before the fireplace sat a rocking chair, occupied, squeaking as it moved. A figure sat in it, shrouded in a shawl, a hood, as though someone had animated a bundle of blankets and cloth. On the hearth above the fireplace sat several sets of teeth, more or less human-sized. One looked simple enough, all white and even. The next was rotted-looking, with chipped incisors and a broken molar. The next set had all pointed teeth, stained with bits of rusty brown and what looked like rotten bits of flesh stuck between them. The last was made out of some kind of silvery metal, shining like a sword.
Quote from: Revelation 6:7-8˄ NIV
When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come and see!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.


  • iron teeth = sword
  • rotted-looking = plague
  • pointed teeth = wild beast
  • simple enough, all white and even = famine

EDIT: those four are NOT the four riders, but the four ways Death can kill during the apocalypse according to the Bible.

6
DF Reference Collection / [CD spoilers] Proven Guilty
« on: December 04, 2012, 05:11:17 PM »
After yesterday's thread about Small Favor, here comes the complete explanation of Proven Guilty!  ;D

I gathered all the pre-CD theories about PG in my compendium. Let me quote the best parts:

Quote
Theories



Each theory is given a percentage estimating its credibility. I use poll results if available, I guess-estimate otherwise.

Theory: Mab wanted to kidnapp Molly 95%


We are almost sure it's true because of this WOJ:
Yeah.  It sure looks that way from here, don't it.

But to correct some minor stuff:  the fetches aren't even /close/ to her strongest servitors.  They're her couriers, harassers, spies and occasional assassins.  Captain Kudzu was a being that was deemed more-or-less sufficient on the badassometer, but nothing to write home about.  The fetches main use, to Mab, isn't as battlefield thugs.  She's got /plenty/ of other things for that.  Another mild correction:  who says Mab /lost/ the battle at Arctis Tor, before Harry and Company arrived?  At the end of the day, the Winter Queen was still in her fortress--but you didn't see anyone standing around assaulting the place, did ya.   Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

(Which goes to show that while Mab may be canny to an inhuman degree, she isn't infallible.  Just way closer to infallible than us.)

See above regarding "the question is *why*?" 

Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. 

As far as she's concerned, everyone and everything is expendable, including herself, when it comes to adhering to her (seemingly irrational and inexplicable) priorities.

(And by the way--don't think Titania is much better.  When push came to shove, she let her own daughter be murdered rather than upset the balance of the Faerie Courts.  At least Mab is up front about it.  Usually.)

Sacrifice her best troops?  Mab would sacrifice every creature *in* Winter, every one she could bring from Summer, and every single mortal on planet Earth if that's what she thought was appropriate.  And she wouldn't even need to add extra sugar to her cup of tea afterwards, much less lose sleep over it.

But no one does cold-blooded like the Queen of Winter.  Mab's been in the business a long time, she's got a balance sheet, and she is *not* going to come out in the red--

--unless, of course, she really *has* stripped a gear, as Lily and Maeve believe.  In which case there's a stark raving bonkers demigoddess whose powers are no longer being held in check by the Escher-esque code of Sidhe behavior.  And that's all kinds of bad.

But hey.  It's probably not that.  I mean, not *everything* that happens can be the absolute worst possible possibility, right?

Jim

So Mab sent the fetches. Then she knows that Harry will send them back to the sender, as it is standard WC procedure:
Quote
Bob’s eyelights brightened even more. “Ooooooo, classic White Council doctrine. When the phages come through, you point them straight at the guy who summoned them. Give him a dose of his own medicine.”

Theory:  Mab never intended Harry to pour summer fire in the well. 74% (51 votes)


From the same WOJ:
Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

(Which goes to show that while Mab may be canny to an inhuman degree, she isn't infallible.  Just way closer to infallible than us.)

Theory:  Mab fixed Little Chicago 65% 


MsDuck theory, the only other famous theory is time-travelling Harry, which has absolutely no proof.
(click to show/hide)


Theory: B.C. was involved in Molly's turn to the dark side 54%(31 votes)


BC in Chicago:

Fact is, we have circumstantial evidence of Black Council activity in Chicago during PG:

  • Madrigal is a known cats-paw for the BC.  Someone invited him over a year before the convention started.  Speculation is that he covering for **something**
  • Sandra Marlin is the one who gets Molly thinking about using magical fear to stop a drug addiction.  She also used to work at a homeless shelter (Marva warning bells here).  If we believe the RPG as cannon, she also disappeared shortly after the events of PG.
Theory: Lea was possessed by an Ousider 45% (31 votes)



Quote from: PG-pg322
  “Child,” she said. Her voice was weak. “You must not free me.”
     I stared at her, feeling confused. “Why?”
     She gritted her teeth and said, “I cannot yet be trusted. It is not time. I would not be able to
fulfill my promise to your mother, should you free me now. You must leave.”
     “Trusted?” I asked.
     “No time,” she said, voice strained again. “I cannot long keep it from taking hold of…” She shuddered
and lowered her head. She lifted her face to me a few seconds later, and the madness had returned to
her eyes. “Wait,” she rasped. “I have reconsidered. Free me.”
     I traded a look with Thomas, and we both took a cautious step backward.
     Lea’s face twisted up with rage and she let out a howl that shook icicles from their positions.
“Release me!”
We all know Lea is a little off her rocker when we first meet her at the beginning of GP.  And she's still a little off her rocker after Mab has 'cured' her of her illness.

It's common speculation that her crazier self was induced by the power she gained by possessing the athame.

But here, we see her say that she "cannot long keep it from taking hold of” her.

What was it that was taking hold of her, that she couldn't control?  Could it be something other than just insanity?

I present thee with the following:

  • We know from Lash's statements in WN that Outsiders can possess other beings, even of the supernatural variety.
    Quote from: WN-pg406
    Lasciel squared her shoulders and straightened. “You’re right,” she said. “It is my choice. Listen to
    me.” She leaned closer, her eyes intent. “Vittorio has been given power. That is how he can do this. He
    is possessed.”
         I wished I could have raised my eyebrows. Possessed by what?
         “An Outsider,” Lasciel said. “I have felt such a presence before. This attack is drawn directly from the
    mind of the Outsider.”
  •   We know that He Who Walks Behind returned to Earth at the end of BR.
    Quote from: BR-pg335
    I remember three more things from that night in the Deeps.
         First was Madge’s body. As I turned to leave, it suddenly sat up. Spines protruded from its skin, along
    with rivulets of slow, dead blood. Its face was ravaged shapeless, but it formed up into the features of the
    demon called He Who Walks Behind, and its mouth spoke in a honey-smooth, honey-sweet, inhuman voice.
    “I am returned, mortal man,” the demon said through Madge’s dead lips. “And I remember thee. Thou and I,
    we have unfinished business between us.”
         Then there was a bubbling hiss, and the corpse deflated like an empty balloon.
  • Lea was attempting to use the power of the athame do something.
    Quote from: PG-pg320
       “Lea,” I said. “What has happened to you? How long have you been a Sidhe-sicle?”
         Some of the strength seemed to ebb from her, and she suddenly seemed exhausted. “I grew too arrogant
    with the power I held. I thought I could overcome what stalks us all. Foolish. Milady Queen Mab taught me the
    error of my ways.”


What if, as part of her protecting Harry, Lea tried to take on HHWB, and was instead possessed?  And Mab had to imprison her until after she could be exorcised.

7
DF Reference Collection / [CD spoilers] Small Favor
« on: December 03, 2012, 08:21:21 PM »
Be sure to go down to response #3 where Elegast busts out his new material -Serack

With the new info in CD, Small Favor becomes far easier to understand.

First, let me quote Knnn who wrote the best post ever concerning Small Favor:

Preface:

Small Favor is another of those books where something is going on in the background, and I've been trying to come up with a theory to explain it all.  I've come up with something, but I don't feel it is quite as solid as what I have for Proven Guilty, but I still think it is worth sharing.  As such, I am going to build up to the theory one block at a time, so that even if the full story is not perfect, at least the individual building blocks may encourages other to come up with their own insights.

Here goes (deep breath):

1) Is Mab being played, or is she the "player"?

We are told in Small Favor that the whole "Harry is predictable" explains how the Denarian's plan to capture the Archive isn't crazy.  However, there still is a critical point missing -- they would have had to predict that Mab would:
a) Choose to rescue Marcone, and
b) Choose Harry as Emissary in this task. 

Now, one could say that Harry would have investigated Marcone's abduction without Mab's intervention, but I'll deal with that chain of logic later on. 

Instead, consider the notion of trying to get Mab to do what you want.  Yes, she is predictable (i.e. no free will), but then so is that world-champion-chess-playing-computer-program.  Sure, if you study the algorithms it uses you can predict what it might do at any given position, but lets see you beat it at a game of chess....  With Mab it is much worse.  Not only do you need to be able to understand her thought-processes in an intimate manner, you also need access to every piece of information she uses to make those decisions - and she has *lots* of ways of gathering information.

Thus, if it's a choice between Mab being played, or Mab playing a game on someone else -- my money is on Mab.  If you limit the choice to "Denarians playing Mab" or "Mab playing the Denarians", I certainly know who I'm betting on.  The only way I could see Mab being played is if was someone like Titania or an Archangel playing on the other side.  I personally believe Titania is working hand in hand with Mab, but that is a subject for a different post (see here for my thoughts on that issue).

Two more points that can be read as supporting Mab:

a) Harry notes (end of chapter 7), that the first set of gruffs were sent by Titania hours before Marcone was attacked, and that this was in response to Mab declaring Harry to be her Emissary in this case. Note also that in this WoJ he says (emphasis mine):
Quote
The first are just the newer gruffs, those most recent from being Changelings.  They attacked Harry simply because Mab declared that she had chosen him as her emissary.
This essentially means that Mab made the first move.

b) At the Shedd, Harry realizes what is going on, flings Nicodemus into a wall and runs inside the descending uber-circle, but first has time to smash Namshiel with a soul-hand a couple of times.  Nic has shown that he has pretty good powers of recuperation, and yet he doesn't make it inside the Pentagram on time.  In fact, Tessa even comments about it.  You'd think Nic could have made it back in time... 

What I find further interesting is that Nic doesn't even try to run interference on the outside.  I mean, you've got wounded Gard and Hendricks (whom they need to capture for torture purposes -- to convince Marcone to take up a coin), and even two juicy Knights.  Sure, Nicodemus is a cautious fellow, but it didn't stop him from flying back to the train to kill attack Michael back in Death Masks. 

To me this suggests that the conversation with Harry in the Shedd really shocked Nic to the core.  All of a sudden, he realizes that something else is going on, and maybe he is being played somehow.  Consequently, he quietly hedges his bets and exists the scene. 

I realize this doesn't automatically mean that Mab is calling the shots (Nicodemus has also just realized that the Black Court has infiltrated his ranks), but...


On to the next point.

2) What advantage does Mab get by choosing Harry as Emissary?

Would Harry really have gone and tried to save Marcone if Mab hadn't chosen him to be Emissary (with the Archive being brought in, etc.)?  If the answer is "yes", then why did she choose him in the first place?  Having Harry as Emissary only adds on the apparent liability of causing Summer's goons to start chasing him, followed by the necessity of removing Fire from his arsenal of weapons.

Some thoughts:

a) Would Harry have been able to call in the Archive to arbitrate without the threat of Mab removing permission for the White Council to use the "ways"? 
b) Would Harry have even moved to save Marcone if not coerced by Mab?  The conversation he has with Thomas shows he might not have.
c) Even if Harry intended to investigate the building, note that he wasn't aware that Marcone was actually inside the building during the attack until Mab showed him in the ice-movie she made.  He might not have moved quickly enough, maybe even stopped at Mrs. Demeter's "Marcone is busy" routine.

Then there is also this quote from the book that need to be resolved:

Quote
I didn’t want to think too hard about that, and I didn’t want to openly agree with her, either. So instead I nodded at the patch of ground where the sculptures had been. “Who took Marcone?”
“I do not know. That is one reason I chose you, Emissary. You have a gift for finding what is lost.”
“If you want me to do this for you, I’m going to need to ask you some questions,” I said.
Mab glanced up, as if consulting the stars through the still-falling snow. “Time, time, time. Will there never be an end to it?” She shook her head. “Wizard child, the hour has nearly passed. I have duties upon which to attend-as do you. You should rise and leave this place immediately.”

The simple explanation here is that Mab really doesn't know who took Marcone, but I find it hard to believe that with all her information-gathering resources she couldn't figure it out something about the attackers.

Examples:

a) Usage of an uber-pentegram that Harry ultimately calculates would require an arch-angel to empower.
b) She could see inside the building the Marcone was hiding in, you'd think she'd be able to see the inside of the car he was taken in.
c) Smell of hellfire -- big giveaway.

Note also that when Harry wants to ask more questions, she brushes him off with the gruff threat (not that those gruff can pose any threat while Mab is standing right there).

Thing is, Mab cannot lie, so maybe she doesn't know exactly who took Marcone.  I'll bet she has a darn good guess though.

-->

To me, the takeaway is that if we assume that Mab is the one calling the shots, then somehow, getting the Archive involved must be part of the plan.

3) The Hob attack

The Hob attack is another weird event.  On the face of it, it seems like an attempt to abduct or kill the Archive, but in fact, I find it hard to believe that gang of Hobs would be a reasonable threat to her.  This is after all a being that is at least as powerful as one of the Faerie Ladies (according to the underestimation of the Warden files), and we see her hold off a horde of Denarians without much trouble.  Add to this Kincaid and Luccio, (and possibly also Harry and Michael - Mab must be keeping tabs on her Emissary), and using a bunch of Hobs for such an operation seems downright stupid -- which Mab is not.  At the very last resort, Ivy could retreat into the Nevernever...

Thus, I suggest that if Mab really wanted to kill the Archive, she could (and would) have easily assembled a way more powerful force (e.g. sending Santa to abduct the child Archive would have been a cool twist), one that would have a better chance at overpowering the Archive and her protectors..

So if the Hob attack was not meant to kill the Archive, what was its purpose?

One possible answer is that all this is simply "warning shot" for the Archive.  Sending a bunch of Hobs to attack her is essentially Mab's way of telling her "Someone is up to no good. Take extra precautions."  One could even say that those clothes thrown around the aquarium to obscure Ivy's smell is a precuation taken by Kincaid as a direct result of this obscure warning. 

4) The Shedd

I've already mentioned Nic's tardiness, but here's another interestingly shaped puzzle piece:

Uriel gives Harry access to Soulfire in this scene (presumably as a reward for resisting Lash), but we need to remember that the only reason he could intervene in this manner on the first place is because Hell had already intevened in the form of the uber-pentegram.  In fact, if you take events in strict linear time, the Soulfire-hand takes place before the second uber-pentegram actually materializes, and so this intervention has to "counterbalance" the first pentegram (the one used to capture Marcone).

Basically it boils down to this:  If Mab wants her future Knight to get access to soulfire, she needs to offer enough bait in front of the Denarians to entice them to break certain cosmic laws -- thus allowing Uriel to counterbalance them with the offer of Soulfire.  Good enough motive for Mab to set all this up?

Another interesting point about the Shedd is that it seems that Harry actually messed up here by charging into the Circle.  Consider that the uber-pentagram couldn't stay up that long; in our timeline it comes down maybe seconds after the Archive is abducted (remember also that Denarians express a worry onscreen that might not be able to find Ivy in time).  If:

a) Harry had never realized Nic was stalling him.
b) Harry had not gotten up the nerve to charge into the Circle.
c) Harry had the sense to stay hidden longer and not take a cheap shot at Tessa.
d) Ivy didn't care about Harry enough to save him at the expense of her freedom --

Kincaid and Ivy might have been able to run out the time on the Circle and Ivy would never have been abducted.  Once the Circle came down, it would have been a BAD DAY to be a Denarian...

Basically, Harry's good intentions -- i.e. his humanity messed up here.

5)The Island

There are a bunch of interesting things that happen on the Island - not the least of which is the encounter with "Eldest", but I'd like to focus on Harry's "Second Sight" starts coming on, the indication that the Island will be important to his future. 

Take a look at this WoJ:

Quote
How strong is Demonreach compared to Mab, Nicodemus, and all the other antagonists Harry faces?
That’s depending on where you stand. Like literally your GPS coordinates. If you’re in the right spot, don’t mess with Demonreach, and if you’re not, who cares. He’s one of those situations. If you want to go out to that island and play, you better bring your A game, is the way it works out.

...It almost sounds like Demonreach could win an arm-wrestling contest with MAB if she ever came to visit.

Given that Harry has just found out that Demonreach will be important to his future, I think it makes sense that Demonreach also got some indication that Harry was an important figure in its future at the same time...   

Demonreach as an ally (through her future Winter Knight) is certainly a plus for Mab.

EDIT: 

Here's another interesting point:  If the Denarian's original plan was only to abduct Marcone, they didn't really need to build that holding cell on the island.  Thus, if one of Mab's original goals was to introduce Harry to Demonreach, dangling Archive-shaped bait in front of the Denarians is the perfect way do so.  It is the only place in the area that would have the ley-line confluence to be able to build a cell to hold her for any long period of time.  Under Mab's original plan, Ivy would have escaped being captured the Shedd, and then she and Harry would have traveled to the island to free Marcone. 

"Mr. Dresden please meet Demonreach.  Demonreach please meet Dresden."




------------------------------------------------------------>
Let's put all these points together into some coherent narrative:
------------------------------------------------------------>


1) Ever since the events of PG, Mab has been trying to gather allies, gain power against the BC, and get revenge on those who invaded her realm.

2) She knows that the Denarians have long been concocting a plan to abduct Marcone and give him a coin (maybe once he became a Freeholder?).  The notion of capturing Ivy is not in their plans yet. So she makes her move.

3) Mab chooses Harry as emissary - hours before the actual attack takes place.  Maybe just as Demeter tells them about the safe house.  Using a super-pentegram is still not in the picture.

4) Now that Harry is emissary, the Denarians realize that they have a chance of bagging Ivy as well.

5) They hastly change their plans.  The uber-pentegram is not strictly needed to capture someone like Marcone, but they decide to use it anyway - to test it out before using it on Ivy.  It's a last minute change to the plan, but Nic feels the risk is worth prize.

6) Thus, in the initial parley with Harry (when Tessa offers him mantis-smex), the Denarians only "fake attack" (good acting there, sacrificing Akariel...).  The real intention is to get Harry to call in mediation.  Note that Tessa is very careful to mention the Accords a number of times -- all the more to plant the idea in Harry's head to call in the Archive.

7) Mab tries to warn the Archive that the Denarians are after her by sacrificing some troops.  It's a simple "WARNING" sign from Mab.  Kincaid and Ivy take extra pecautions (such as laying clothes everywhere).  Unfortunatly, Kincaid neglects to pack claymore mines.

8 ) At the Shedd, Nic suddenly realizes that his plan is compromised.  From this point on, he begins hedging his bets (staying back).

9) The fact that the Denarians took the bait and broke the rules testing the pentegram on Marcone, means that Uriel gets to give Harry access to soulfire.  Mab dances a jig.

10) The attack on Ivy goes down, but instead of failing - with the Archive proceeding to pulverise the Denarians in retaliation (as Mab intended), Harry steps in and essentially messes everything up and Ivy gets taken.  Bad for Mab, but...

11) Harry goes to the island to rescue Ivy, and in the process Demonreach notices him -- more potential power for Mab's future Knight.

12) The Archive gets rescued after having been abused, holding an even stronger grudge against the Denarians.  Another ally for Mab in the fight against the Black Council.

13) Mab WINS.

---------------

Final note: read this WoJ, see if it fits:
Quote
The thing is that Mab never really figures Dresden quite right.  She never gets it right when she tries to predict what he will do.  But Small Favor turned out really well for her.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

With CD, I think we can make some guess:

1. The hobs at the train station were sent by Maeve to capture the Archive

2. Titania tried to kill Harry out of revenge, not to help the denarians.

3. Thorned Namshiel wanted to kidnap the Archive in order to infect Ivy, and to attack Marcone to weaken the Accords (made by Mab to let her concentrate on the outsiders).

4. Mab, Nemesis arch-ennemy, saw the preparation for Namshiel's big circle (who's infected), so she had to make a countermove.

5. So she chose Harry as her emissary and made a phone call to Uriel, and with some luck she WINS: Namshiel is captured, the Accords are upheld, Ivy is not infected, her knight gets soulfire, DM and Harry meet for the first time.

EDIT: some additional remarks on 'why did she choose Harry?'

At that moment, Mab had no knight, her second in command was frozen in her ice garden, her Lady was a traitor, the bulk of her armies were fighting a war and the rest keeping Summer in check, and any of her troops could be infected. So in fact she had very little ressources to spare, and Harry gave her the most bang for the bucks.

8
DF Reference Collection / [CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread
« on: November 29, 2012, 09:08:30 PM »
The Cowl = Simon theory has been discussed in a huge number of threads. This is an attempt to write a reference thread summing all the knowledge about it. Criticism of the theory and of the OP is encouraged.

The theory is old and well-known, so I haven't been able to identify its original author. Still I would like to thank Raptor, 123456789blaaa and Neurovore, as I stole much from their posts to write this one. Many, many others wrote insightful posts on the subject, thank you all.


Cowl is Simon Petrovich

Everything we know about Cowl


(click to show/hide)

So we know that Cowl:
  • is human
  • is a wizard
  • is a SC level wizard, in skill and power
  • has studied necromancy with 'good' intentions
  • claims not to be a Kemmlerite
  • knew that Bob used to be Kemmler's propriety
  • knows well the members of the WC
  • has a strange, inhuman voice
  • has a female apprentice
  • is male
  • has survived deathcurses
  • has sustained serious injuries
  • uses 'Dorosh' as keyword for his magic
  • is a fan of Goethe
  • gave the athame to Bianca
  • hopes not be mad
  • has a magic that do not feel completely dark
  • has connections with the outsiders
  • wanted to see Harry for himself

Cowl is Simon, Klaus or a new character


The core argument of the Cowl=Simon theory is very simple and very powerful:

we know that Cowl is a human SC-level wizard, so the list of suspect is very short:

  • Langtry
  • Rashid
  • Eb
  • Lafortier
  • Mai
  • Martha
  • LTW
  • Simon Petrovich
  • Klaus Schneider (the Toymaker)

During Dead Beat the SC was fighting the Reds. So we have two possibilities: Simon or Klaus.

It's impossible to rule out Klaus, but we have arguments against it:

Quote from: Summer Knight
Injun Joe interrupted. "Wizard Schneider is a fine enchanter, and he has a reputation for skill and honesty. But he is young for such a responsibility. There are wizards present who are his senior in experience and the Art. They deserve the consideration of the Council."
Quote from: Summer Knight
"Wizard Schneider."
A small, round-cheeked man with a fringe of gauzy white down over his scalp and a round belly stretching his robes stood up and gave Ebenezar a brief nod. Then he looked up at the Merlin and said, in Latin with a heavy Germanic accent, "While I am grateful for the offer, honored Merlin, I must respectfully decline your nomination, in favor of Wizard McCoy. He will serve the Council more ably than I."

Klaus is small, whereas Cowl has long arms and is taller than Kumori, who is tall enough to held Harry's hair (she has to stretch to do so).

Klaus shows no sign of injury.

LTW implies that McCoy is a greater wizard than Klaus, and Klaus seems to agree.

This quote:
Quote from: Dead Beat
"Bite my ass, Cowl." 
Kumori's hood twitched back and forth between Cowl and me.  She took three steps back.
"Just as well," Cowl murmured.  "I have wanted to see for myself what has the wardens so nervous about you."
seems to imply that Cowl has never met Harry before (and yet he already has in GP...). Klaus has already met Harry.

And on the other hand, the case for Simon is really strong.

The case for Simon Petrovitch = Cowl

Simon was a male, human wizard, member of the senior Council.

He was living in Archangel, Russia, so he knew Goethe (his works at least) and could have used 'Dorosh', which seems to have East-european origines.

He's the leader of the 'Brute Squad', which went against Kemmler, so he knew Kemmler.

His apprentice Justin took Bob from the ruin of Kemmler's lab. So it's a fair bet he knew about Bob.

Justin had extensive contacts with the Oustsiders, implying that Simon would have no problem getting connected to them.

Simon had a female apprentice:
Quote from: Paranet Files Preview
You’ll see direct translations from sources like Simon and his apprentice Larisa Yevtushenko

He was not evil/mad as Kemmler was.

So we see that Simon would have no problem filling all the characteristics of Cowl, and is the only character to do so in the Dresdenverse.

In reverse, it would be far easier for Cowl to carry his plots if he were Simon:

Quote from: Summer Knight
Martha shook her head. "Simon Pietrovich. Senior Council member. Our vampire expert. He was killed less than two days ago. The whole compound in Archangel , Ebenezar. All of them. I'm sorry."
Ebenezar shook his head slowly. His voice was a pale shadow of its usual self. "I've been to his tower. It was a fortress. How did they do it? "The Wardens said that they couldn't be sure, but it looked like someone let the killers in past the defenses. They didn't get away unscathed. There were the remains of half a dozen nobles of the Red Court . Many of their warriors. But they killed Simon and the rest."
"Let them in?" Ebenezar breathed. "Treachery? But even if it was true, it would have to be someone who knew his defenses inside and out."

Firstly, we know there was traitor at Archangel. Since it's improbable that any of the victim was the traitor, Lafortier logically assumes that Harry is responsable. We know that to be false. So someone in the complex was the traitor. Someone who was not killed. Simon being Cowl solves that mystery.

Secondly, Simon was the WC vampire expert. Cowl planned two big vampires operations during the books: the war with the Red Court and the coup in the White Court. Cowl was very close to Bianca and Vittorio, and maybe Madrigal, Madeline and Mavra, Bianca's teacher. Cowl needed extensive knowledge of the vampires courts, and many contacts/allies among them to accomplish his plots, so being Simon would definitely make his life easier.

Little WAG: We know Cowl has sustained serious injuries and survived deathcurses. I believe that several members of the Brute Squad understood he was a traitor, and used their deathcurses against him. He survived, but with heavy injuries.


The deathcurse WOJ problem

There is one major objection to this theory, caused by one WOJ:

Quote from: WOJ
See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight.

It seems to imply that Simon throw his deathcurse.


However, three counter-arguments are possible:

- the WOJ does not explicitly says that Simon casted his deathcurse. Maybe the vampires were around Simon because he was the one leading them.

-  maybe he did cast his deathcurse, but still managed to resurrect the CorpseTaker way. After all, non soulfire powered deathcurse should not use up the soul.

- maybe he faked his own deathcurse, which is not completely impossible per WOJ:
Quote from: WOJ
Definitely a qualitative difference. I mean, we rate nukes in terms of "how many thousand tons of TNT is this equal to?" but let me see you try to deploy 80,000 tons of TNT as a weapon. If you could, the destruction would be the same, in theory, but the nuke has a quality all its own that makes it stand out. A death curse is the same thing. A really powerful practitioner (any member of the Council) could probably simulate a death curse with enough time and forethought, but there would be traces that an investigator could find, afterward. "Hey, why are there tire tracks worn into this road? Because someone was using it to haul 80,000 tons of TNT to the site of the explosion, and you can't do that without a LOT of trucks."

Paranet Papers

In the new RPG, there will be a lot of info about Simon. Which may be imply that Simon is not that important after all.

Quote from: Knnn
[looks at notes]
Hmmm, it looks like that quote is not as clear cut as I remember it.

It's from a podcast from 2d6 feet in a random direction, #56 (from April 2010, I believe).  I have a transcript for the relevant parts (5-7 minute mark), the rest of the hour is not really about the DF.   Serack -- I don't know if you have this down already, so you may want to add it.

Regular font is Fred, bold face is the interviewers.  Fred is talking about how much input Jim had for the new material.

Quote
So, we got a few tidbits from him, we will be getting to invent details; far more detail than we invented for the core books.  Um in a number of cases, but we'll also be drawing from "Hey Jim give us a few bullet points about a particular location".  You know, if we want the people to work for the, the player characters stand in the Nevernever chapter to work for the Gatekeeepr in some capacity, what do we need to know about that, and what came out of that was Jim telling me about where the Gatekeepers demesne is.  Where his domain is, where his private citadel is ensconced somewhere in the Nevernever, and the route to it, and I will reveal that here involves walking across the surface of the moon.

Nice, I mean clearly some sort of magical protection...

So you've got that sort of thing in there, but we've also got things like where Simon Pietrovich, Justin Dumorne's mentor, and the Senior Council member that was a... um... removed from power, shall we say in book four, he clearly lived somewhere in Russia, likely during the Russian Revolution, so we, how much control do we have over him.  {quoting Jim} "Fair amount, I don't really have a lot in mind for him, so obviously I'll want to look at it, what your ideas are, but you can do, you can mess around with that".  So we're like "OK, we're going to make him a friend of the Czar, as the Russian revolution is breaking out and have that, you know, tie his hands a little bit and push some things into a direction the is going to be a problem".

That's pretty cool.  What a terrible terrible set of constraints you have for a licensed product. 

So on the on hand you've got Jim's "I don't really have a lot in mind", but on the other, you've got Fred seemingly avoiding declaring that Simon is dead.

Motivation

For a very long time, no obvious motivation was available to explain Simon's potential fall. After Cold Days, and taking in account that Cowl was the one supplying the infected athame, it seems probable that Cowl is infected. It's interesting to note that Aurora, who was infected, thought she was working for the greater good.  The same may have happened to Simon, as Cowl seems genuinely concerned by the morality/sanity of his actions.

Sources

Memories of old threads and:
- Serack's WOJ compilation
- this long thread on the subject
- this even longer one

9
DF Reference Collection / Harry is Kemmler reborn
« on: November 24, 2012, 12:11:59 AM »
Ok, this is absolutely not a new theory, I just want to start a thread that can be used a reference. This is a work in progress, BTW.


Harry is Kemmler reborn


The Life and Works of Heinrich Kemmler



Quote from: Dead Beat
"Because that Kemmler was a certifiable nightmare," Bob said. "I mean, wow. He was sick, Harry. Evil."
That got my attention. Bob the skull was an air spirit, a being that existed in a world of knowledge without morality. He was fairly fuzzy on the whole good-evil conflict, and as a result he had only vague ideas of where lines got drawn. If Bob thought someone was evil, well… Kemmler must have really pushed the envelope.
"What'd he do?" I asked. "What made him so evil?"
"He was best known for World War One," Bob said.
"The whole thing?" I demanded.
"Mostly, yeah," Bob said. "There were about a hundred and fifty years of engineering built into it, and he had his fingers into all kinds of pies. He vanished at the end of hostilities and didn't show up again until he started animating mass graves during World War Two. Went on rampages out in Eastern Europe, where things were pretty much a nightmare even without his help. Nobody is sure how many people he killed."
"Stars and stones," I said. "Why would he do something like that?"
"A wild guess? He was freaky insane. Plus evil."
"You say 'was,'" I said. "Past tense?"
"Very," Bob said. "After what the guy did, the White Council hunted him down and wiped his dusty ass out in 1961."
"You mean the Wardens?"
"I mean the White Council," Bob said. "The Merlin, the whole Senior Council, the brute squad out of Archangel, the Wardens, and every wizard and ally the wizards could get their hands on."
I blinked. "For one man?"
"See above, regarding nightmare," Bob said. "Kemmler was a necromancer, Harry. Power over the dead. He had truck with demons, too, was buddies with most of the vampire Courts, every nasty in Europe, and some of the uglier faeries, too. Plus he had his own little cadre of baby Kemmlers to help him out. Apprentices. And thugs of every description."
"Damn," I said.
"Doubtless he was," Bob said. "They killed him pretty good. A bunch of times. He'd shown up again after the Wardens had killed him early in the nineteenth century, so they were real careful the second time. And good riddance to the psychotic bastard."
I blinked. "You knew him?"
"Didn't I ever tell you?" Bob asked. "He was my owner for about forty years."
I stared. "You worked with this monster?"
"I do what I do," Bob said proudly.
"How did Justin get you, then?"
"Justin DuMorne was a Warden, Harry, back at Kemmler's last stand. He pulled me out of the smoldering ruins of Kemmler's lab. Sort of like when you pulled me out of the smoldering ruins of Justin's lab when you killed him. Circle of life, like that Elton John song."

Quote from: Dead Beat
"Maybe," Bob said. "Council records stated that Kemmler had written three books; The Blood of Kemmler, The Mind of Kemmler, and The Heart of Kemmler."

Quote from: Dead Beat
"That you have little time," Mab said. She turned to face me again. "I must do what I might to preserve your life. Know this, mortal: Should Kemmler's heirs acquire the knowledge bound within the Word, they will be in a position to gather up such power as the world has not seen in many thousands of years."
"What? How?"
"Kemmler was"—Mab's eyes grew distant, as if in memory— "a madman. A monster. But brilliant. He learned how to bind to his will not only dead flesh, but shades—to rend them asunder and devour them to feed his own power. It was the secret of the strength that allowed him to defy all the White Council together."

Harry and necromancy

Quote from: Dead Beat
She might have been as long as a city bus, but Sue, despite her weight, moved with power and grace. As I'd called forth energy-charged ectoplasm to clothe the ancient bones, they had become covered in sheets of muscle and a hide of heavy, surprisingly supple quasi-flesh. She was dark grey, and there was a ripple pattern of black along her head, back, and flanks, almost like that of a jaguar. And once I had shaped the vessel, I had reached out and found the ancient spirit of the predator that had animated it in life.
Animals might not have the potential power of human remains. But the older the remains, the more magic can be drawn to fill them—and Sue was sixty-five million years old.
She had power. She had power in spades.
Quote from: Grave Peril
I found those spirits, reached out and touched them, one by one.
“Memorium,” I whispered. “Memoratum. Memortius.”
Energy rushed out of me. I shoved it out as fast as it would go, and I gave it to them. To the lost ones. The seduced, the betrayed, the homeless, the helpless. All the people the vampires had preyed on, through the years, all the dead I could reach. I reached out into the turmoil Bianca and her allies had created, and I gave those wandering shades power.
The house began to shake.
Quote from: GS
I gripped the wooden grain of my staff, recalling the feelings that had surged through me when I had summoned and bound the Lecters. I called on my memories one more time. I called up the ache of sore muscles after a hard workout, and the sheer physical joy of my body in motion during a run, walking down the street, sinking into a hot bath, swimming through cool water, stroking over the softness of another body beside mine. I thought of my favorite old T-shirt, a plain, black cotton one with 98% CHIMPANZEE written on the chest in white typeset letters. I thought of the creak of my old leather cowboy boots, the comfort of a good pair of jeans. The scent of a wood-smoked grill drifting into my nose when I was hungry, the way my mouth would water and my stomach would growl. I thought of my old Mickey Mouse alarm clock going off too early in the morning, and groaning out of bed to go to work. I remembered the smell of a favorite old book’s pages when I opened them again, and the smell of smoldering motor oil, a staple feature of my old Blue Beetle. I remembered the softness of Susan’s lips against mine. I remembered my daughter’s slight, warm weight in my arms, her exhausted body as limp as a rag doll’s. I remembered the way tears felt, sliding free of my eyes, the annoying blockage of congestion when I had a cold, and a thousand other things—little things, minor things, desperately important things.
You know. Life.
Then I did something fairly nutty, as I gathered the memory for what I was to attempt. I just uttered the spell in plain, old English. The energy seared through my thoughts in a way that would have been damaging to a living wizard, maybe fatal. It seemed appropriate to use it here, and I released whatever power I had left, clothing it in garments of memory, as I murmured the most basic of ideas, the foundation of words and of reality.
“Be.”
Quote from: GS
Given the way my life has typically progressed, I probably should have guessed that What Came Next was pain.
A whole lot of pain.
I tried to take a breath, and a searing burst of agony radiated out from my chest. I held off on the next breath for as long as I could, but eventually I couldn’t put it off anymore, and again fire spread across my chest.
I repeated that cycle for several moments, my entire reality consumed by the simple struggle to breathe and to avoid the pain. I was on the losing side of things, and if the pain didn’t exactly lessen, it did, eventually, become more bearable.
“Good,” whispered a dry, rasping voice. “Very good.”
I felt the rest of my body next. I was lying on something cool and contoured. It wasn’t precisely comfortable, but it wasn’t a torment, either. I clenched my fingers, but something was wrong with them. They barely moved. It was as though someone had replaced my bones and flesh with lead weights, heavy and inert, and my tendons and muscles were too weak to break the inertia. But I felt cool, damp earth crumbling beneath my fingertips.
“Doesn’t seem to bode well,” I mumbled. My tongue didn’t work right. My lips didn’t, either. The words came out a slushy mumble.
“Excellent,” rasped the voice. “I told you he had strength enough.”

Strange WOJ


Quote
Nah, the very foundations of the story worlds--their magic--are fundamentally incompatible.  Potterverse magic is based largely upon the dictates of story drama.  It's irrational, capricious, finicky, and generally doesn't make a lot of sense from any rational perspective.  (Flick your wand like THIS not like THAT and say the word like THIS and not like THAT and it works.)  Magic is a force unto itself, a law unto itself, and while it /does/ operate with absolute fidelity and consistency within the story world, it's beholden to no one.

Dresden universe magic is modeled more closely upon physics.  Magic still has to pay attention to fundamental universal laws--such as "matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only rearranged."  The energy for all those magical effects has to come from somewhere.  There ain't no free lunch.

For instance, you could fly someone on a broom in the Dresden universe, but you'd have to be providing the same kind of kinetic energy you'd see from one of those James Bond rocket packs that they fly into the Superbowl from time to time--IE, a buttload.  (Those packs are good for about twenty or twenty five seconds of flight, if I remember correctly, and that's it.)  In the Potter universe, dozens of children who know next to nothing about magic can gad about on brooms in the afternoon for fun and recreation, and no one thinks anything of it.  There's a foundational difference in the approach to how magic interacts with reality.

And yeah, Voldemort wouldn't have graduated high school in the Dresden universe.  Once Tom Riddle started playing with the evil juju, someone in a grey cloak would have shown up to whack off his head and nipped him in the bud.

Unless, of course, someone more highly placed in the Council intervened on Riddle's behalf, and maybe gave the kid a little more guidance and maybe even a chance to choose a different path.  Then, who knows.

Old Tom might up and do something else entirely with all that potentially-dark talent. >


Jim

Harry and the Kemmelrites
Quote from: GS
“I will make this offer exactly once, Dresden,” Evil Bob said quite calmly. He put his other hand on the staff, mirroring me, and I suddenly realized that if he wanted to, he could fling me considerably farther than he had Sir Stuart—assuming he didn’t just ram the staff straight back into my chest and out of my back.
I was suddenly unsure whether the spook squad could take Evil Bob even if they were all right there, Lecters, guardians, and all.
“What offer?” I asked him.
“A relationship,” he replied. “With me.”
Yeah. He actually said it like that.
“Um,” I said, narrowing my eyes. “Maybe you could clarify what you mean by a relationship. Because I’ve got to tell you, Bob, I’ve, uh . . . I’ve been hurt.”
The joke missed him completely. I was apparently snarking on the wrong frequency. “In the nature of an apprenticeship,” he said. “You have sound fundamental skills. You are practical. Your ambition is tempered by an understanding of your limits. You have the potential to be an excellent partner.”
“And I’m not flipping insane like the Corpsetaker,” I said.
“Hardly. But your insanities are more manageable,” Evil Bob said, “and you have few self-delusions.” He sniffed. “The Master never favored that creature, in any case. But he would have been interested in you.”
Quote from: GS
“You were able to manifest after all? Intriguing. You’ve a natural gift for darker magic, I think. My master would have snapped you up in an instant.

Trivia


- Harry was born on Halloween, the day of the deads.
- most people who see Harry's soul are terrified, some of them even faint
- Harry and some of his allies (Uriel, Mab) have a proclivity for mass-murder
- Harry is a wizard of tremendous power (top thirty in raw strength in the whole world at minimum)
- Harry is one of the few wizards ever to come back from the deads
- Harry has mastered the Word of Kemmler in  a few moments
- Justin knew Kemmler, at least as an ennemy (he stole Bob)
- Cowl, proficient in Kemmler's magic, may be Simon Petrovitch, Justin's master
- the Council is terrified of Harry, 'what he was meant to be'
- Demonreach accepted Harry as a Warden when he recieved a piece of Harry's soul. (semi-speculation based on WOJ). A position which had been vacant for some time...
- Harry is a natural leader
- Harry is Law-breaker
- Harry has a talent for dark magic
- Harry is a rebel
- Harry has started a world war
- It was implied in GS that Harry's soul would go to Hell

The Theory

Quote from: GS
Uriel’s smile blossomed again. “You’ve got it backward, Harry,” he said. “You are a soul. You have a body.”

Kemmler is well known for his multiple resurrections. If he followed Corpsetaker's playbook, it seems that necromancers simply move their souls between bodies, kicking out the soul that was there previously. There is no reason that it couldn't work on a single cell. As there is no brain, the memories are not transfered, but as Lea said, all memories are still in the soul.

Then we have to find a motivation. I see at least two:

Firstly, each time Kemmler came back he was crushed by the WC. With a new identity and a new life he would be at last free from council interference.

Secondly, he wanted to be an Outsiderbane. The power of outsiderbane is linked to the date of birth. So with this new birth he finally gained this rare and dangerous ability.

10
DFRPG / Paranet Files preview
« on: May 15, 2012, 01:11:10 PM »
Here is the Evil Hat Facebook page:http://www.facebook.com/EvilHatProductions

At 1100 "Likes", there will be a preview of the Paranet Files (additional material for the DFRPG). Only 43 to go!

Edited for clarity.

Edit: only 18 to go!

11
We know there is some mysterious person in PG at the Splattercon. I know who it was! (Really  ;D)

Missing person quote:
Quote
There were a few more screams, the quick, light sound of frightened feet, and I whirled. I saw someone flee the room from the corner of my eye, but I didn’t get much of a look at them.

Some quotes:
about the murk:
Quote
“What the hell,” he said, and shook the light a few times. He had his hand on his gun, the restraining strap off, but he hadn’t drawn it yet. Good man. He knew as well as I did that the hotel was going to have far more panicked attendees than potential threats.

“We’ll try mine,” I said, and got the silver pentacle on its chain from around my neck. A gentle whisper and an effort of will and the amulet began to emit a pure, silver-blue light that reached into the darkness around us, burning it away as swiftly as it pressed in, until we could see for maybe fifteen feet around us. Beyond that was just a murky vagueness— not so much a cloud or a mist as a simple lack of light.
about the ward:
Quote
struggled to ignore the sounds of frightened people in the dark and focused on my magical senses. I reached out to the cold and the gloom, and found it a vaguely familiar kind of spellworking, though I couldn’t remember precisely where I’d encountered it before.
Quote
I nodded once at him, turned, and plunged into the darkness, Rawlins at my back. Screams erupted around us, sometimes accompanied by the sight of stumbling, terrified people. Rawlins nudged them toward the walls, barked at them in a tone of pure paternal authority to stay near them, to move carefully for the exits. The gloom began to press in closer to me, and it became an effort of will to hold up the light in my amulet against it. A few steps more and the air grew even colder. Walking forward became an effort, like wading through waist-deep water. I had to lean against it, and I heard a grunt of effort come out of my mouth. “What’s wrong?” Rawlins asked, his voice tight.

We passed under one of the hotel’s emergency light fixtures, its floodlights only dim orange rings in the murk until my amulet’s light burned the shadows away. “Dark magic,” I growled through clenched teeth. “A kind of ward. Trying to keep me from moving ahead.”
Quote
He[Rawlins] gave me an odd look, grabbed an older woman who was passing blindly, and sent her off to follow the wall to the door out. He shivered then, and when he exhaled his breath came out in a long, frosty plume. The temperature had dropped maybe forty degrees in the space of a minute.
about Pell's theater:
Quote

I caught my breath a little, and asked, “Anything at Pell’s theater?”

Murphy nodded and crossed the room to pick up two of the candles. “A lot of nothing. Place was locked up tight. Chains on the front doors, and the back door was locked. Sign on the door said they were closed until further notice.”

I grunted. “You’d think Pell would be wild to have the place open, if the convention was providing a significant amount of his income—even if he was in a hospital bed. Hell, especially if he was in a hospital bed.”

“Unless he doesn’t have anyone he trusts to run it for him.”

The magic strongly points toward Maeve. It's cold. It's darkness. Harry has seen the same binding in Summer Knight performed on Slate by Maeve. She was the one who closed the door at the theater: the fetches attacked Pell, freeing the Way back to Artis Tor.

Now that's indications, not proof. But I've more: Harry saw her. She was at Splattercon.
Quote
Two girls, both too young for me to think adult thoughts about, sidled by in black-and-purple clothing and makeup that left a lot of skin bare, their faces painted pale, trickles of fake blood at the corners of their mouths. One of them smiled at me, and she had fangs.

This is Maeve. Right in front of Harry. Taunting him. The girls are described exactly like Maeve. They wear the clothes she likes. They wear the colors of Winter. It's also a reference to Harry's costume in GP.

I give you the official descriptions of Maeve:
Quote
The young woman who entered the bar could have been Lily’s sister. She had the same exotic beauty, the same canted, feline eyes, the same pale, flawless skin. But this one’s hair was worn in long, ragged strands of varying lengths, like a Raggedy Ann doll, each one dyed a slightly different color from frozen seas—pale blues and greens, as though each had borrowed its color from a different glacier. Her eyes were a cold, brilliant shade of green, almost entirely darkened by pupils dilated as though with drugs or arousal. A slender silver hoop gleamed at one side of her nose, and a collar of black leather studded with silver snowflakes encircled the graceful line of her slender throat. She wore sandals and cut-off blue jean shorts—very cut-off, and very tight. A tight, white T-shirt strained across her chest, and read, in pale blue letters stretched into intriguing curves, “YOUR BOYFRIEND WANTS ME.”
Quote
She looked young. Young enough to make a man feel guilty for thinking the wrong thoughts, but old enough to make it difficult not to. Her hair had been bound into long dreadlocks, each of them dyed a different shade, ranging from a deep lavender to pale blues and greens to pure white, so that it almost seemed that her hair had been formed from glacial ice. She wore leather pants of dark, dark blue, laced and open up the outside seams from calf to hip. Her boots matched the pants. She wore a white T-shirt tight enough to show the tips of her breasts straining against the fabric, framing the words OFF WITH HIS HEAD. She had hacked the shirt off at the top of her rib cage, leaving pale flesh exposed, along with a glitter of silver flashing at her navel.

Now, wait, it gets worse, this is just after the murk appears:
Quote
Rawlins stared at me for a second and then said, “What the hell is going on?”

There were running footsteps and shouts and cries in the gloom. All of them sounded choked, muffled somehow. One of the two teenaged “vampires” stumbled into the circle of my azure wizard’s light, sobbing.

Yes. One of the two was missing. That was Maeve who went backstage. She was in Chicago, and that's how she showed up so quickly:

Quote
That is one way to describe it,” Lily said quietly. “I would not, myself, interpret it that way. I had no part in bringing the fetches here—but their presence and their capture of Lady Charity’s daughter presented us with an opportunity to temporarily neutralize the presence of Mab’s forces upon our borders.”

“We,” I murmured. “Maeve is working with you. That was why she showed up at McAnally’s so quickly.”

Solved. :D

Edit:

Thanks to Griffyn612, we even know the reason for each attack.

The first attack was targeting Pell. Aim: free the theater,where there is a Way to Artis Tor.
The second attack was to make Harry react, and make sure he would send the phages to Molly.
The third attack was targeting the vampire/girl to make sure there would be no witness.
Quote
The third victim had been one of the little vampire girls I’d seen the previous evening. I could only tell because her head had landed facing me. The rest of her was hopelessly intermixed with the other two bodies.
Quote
Time resumed its course. The energy that powered the spell fled out of me in another rush, and left me lying on my side, struggling to draw in enough breath. I could feel the spell sizzling down the lines of power for the summoner, and a heartbeat later there was a sense of impact as the spell went home. As it happened, the entities my web touched went abruptly still, the web ceasing its trembling—and then they all surged forward into sudden motion, vanishing from the web, and presumably streaking after the lure.

All but one.
That's why Harry's spell failed. Mab knew Harry was planning a redirection spell. The last phage was specifically send to kill the vampire/girl and could not be diverted.
The fourth attack was targeting Glau, killing the last witness, saving Harry if necessary, and taunting him.

12
DF Reference Collection / PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.
« on: May 04, 2012, 05:43:50 PM »

This is pre-CD speculation about PG. The OP is a summary of previous theories made by Knnn and Neurovore. The following discussion is strong, featuring Neuro, Knnn and MsDuck, our three PG experts.
-Elegast


This is yet another thread about PG. However, PG, along with SmF, is the most important/mysterious book so I don't feel so guilty about starting it.  :D

Knnn and Neurovore have already written magnificent posts explaining PG. Problem: the two are not compatible, and we have WOJ that Neurovore made a wrong assumption. I'll try to combine the two.

For reference, here is Neurovore's post:DF: The Madness of Queen Mab - PG-focused, SmurF spoilers
Knnn's post: A fresh perspective on Proven Guity (Spoilers for everything)

Let's begin with a few facts from the two posts:

Quote
We know Lea gets the athame in GP.  We know she is carrying it in SK.  We know that Mab is carrying it in DB and has at that point had to contain Lea.  We know that as of PG Mab seems erratic and Lea is clearly completely Upminster*.  It seems a reasonable working hypothesis that the athame is a vector for crazyness.

We also know the athame comes from Cowl.  So it seems a reasonable working hypothesis that the power it conveys is Outsider-based.

We know Aurora's nuts in SK.  We also know we have not seen Titania on stage yet and it would be surprising were there not a reason for this.

[As I see it, the options for what's going on with Summer are
a) whoever is behind the athame has their hooks in Summer too
b) Summer has gone looking for a non-Faerie power source to keep the balance against Winter having the athame and picked a different dark and nasty one.  The Denarians seem a reasonable choice here.]

Big outstanding question here; if the athame drove Lea mad, enough that Mab had to forcibly subdue her, why on Earth is Mab carrying it around rather than burying it in a deep dark hole ?

The explanation that seems to make most sense to me is, because she has no choice.  Because Lea, under the influence of the athame, has made some sort of commitments which Mab, in binding Lea, is bound to fulfil. As she explains in DB she has to in the case of Lea's godmotherly commitments to Harry.

Quote
The Gatekeeper:

The mystery of PG really starts with the Gatekeeper and his cryptic warning to Harry about "Black Magic" in Chicago.   Bob comes up with the interpretation that the Gatekeeper cannot give any more information because it will lead to paradoxeggedon - i.e. that even more black magic is potentially coming to Chicago and this warning is the best the Gatekeeper can do.

But when you think about it, other than Molly's mind-control stuff, is there any other Black Magic going on in Chicago?  What exactly is the Gatekeeper trying to prevent?  Initially, Harry thinks that the psychic mauling of Pell (the theater owner) is black magic, but this turns out to merely be a Fetch.  Somehow, this feels more "animalistic" to me rather than "evil".  Is the blackout that the Fetch induced any more "black magic" than the Myrk that the Hobs bring during SmF?

The other (and to me, more plausible) explanation is of course that the Gatekeeper is foreseeing Molly's greased (by the mind control she's already attempted) slide into black magic, and is getting Harry to prevent that.

Which leads me to my next point...

Black Council actions in PG:

Talk to anyone about BC activity in Proven Guilty and they'll immediately think about the attack on Arctis Tor.  It was swift, powerful, and it very clearly implied that there were forces at work that had their own agenda.  However, two things always bothered me:

1) The frontal assault

The BC is a group that has consistently worked from the shadows and through layers of cats-paws.  Why would they conduct a full-scale frontal assault on one of the most powerful creatures in the DV in her place of power (i.e. we've seen that Erlking thought he had a chance against her should she be summoned to his domain)?  Furthermore, we have the WoJ that any assault by the like of Namshiel would not only be defeated, but utterly crushed.  Sanya excepted, why would any intelligent creature (and nigh-immortals count, certainly once they are at least a century old) pursue such a futile course of action?  This smacks as either desperation (i.e. Harry), or temporary insanity (i.e. Harry).

I've seen the various theories that they had some hold or bargain over Mab, or that maybe this was a strike to remove the Athame from Mab's possession (heck, I made that one myself at some point), but then this never really explained why Harry needed to come to Arctis Tor - the real attack was already defeated.

2) BC in Chicago:

Fact is, we have circumstantial evidence of Black Council activity in Chicago during PG:

- Madrigal is a known cats-paw for the BC.  Someone invited him over a year before the convention started.  Speculation is that he covering for **something**

- Sandra Marlin is the one who gets Molly thinking about using magical fear to stop a drug addiction.  She also used to work at a homeless shelter (Marva warning bells here).  If we believe the RPG as cannon, she also disappeared shortly after the events of PG.

Theory: The BC was trying to turn Molly.

Here are Knnn's arguments, I believe them to be right:
Quote
The answer struck me that the whole PG story might just have been an attempt to "turn" Molly.

Consider that:

- We've already seen that the general BC mode of operation is to give powerful-but-dangerous black magic tools to various people and let them run loose: 

- Victor Sells
- Hexunwulf FBI
- Kravos

...you might also include the Athame, the device from Love Hurts, and possibly even the Word of Kemmler itself.

Now we have Molly, who unlike Victor Sells, actually has the power to make the White Council, and she's rebellious enough to be touched by darkness.  All one needs to do is to nudge her in the right direction and give her a bit a of power and she could make a scary diversion from whatever you're trying to actually accomplish.  For extra points:

- If Marva is on the BC, corrupting the daughter of the guy who "killed your children" is certainly a bonus.
- If you are a Denarian (Namshiel?), then getting the magically-powered daughter of a Knight to take up a coin is certainly a bonus.
- Maybe Molly is special (I'll speculate more about this at the end)

As a last thought, consider the following:

If Harry hadn't stepped in and taken Molly to her parents, she would have gone with Nelson to greet "Darby Crane".  Given who he really is and Molly's looks, don't you think he would have tried (and probably succeeded) to "shake hands" with her?  If he did shake hands, isn't it a reasonable assumption that he would have realized her potential, given his ability to feed on fear and Molly's recent fear-inducing magic?

Theory: Mab never intended Harry to pour summer fire in the well.

Knnn's argues that a WOJ strongly implies it, Serack agrees, Neurovore doesn't. I feel that Knnn is right. Here is the WOJ in question:
Quote
  Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

(Which goes to show that while Mab may be canny to an inhuman degree, she isn't infallible.  Just way closer to infallible than us.)



Theory: The BC attacked Artis Tor to save mad Lea.

EDIT: I made some mistakes in this part about Neurovore's theories concerning the Artis Tor attack.

Then we have the attack on Arctis Tor. Neurovore believed at one point that it was under orders from Summer in order to let Harry come in. I think Neurovore made the mistake Jim is talking about when Neurovore assumed the denarians are working for Titania. Later Neurovore proposed this explanation, which I believe to be right:

Quote
The real "attack" on Winter is via the means of the athame, warping Mab and Lea, and possibly also via the means of Lea being required to make bargains that are not for Winter's good (like swapping the athame for Amoracchius in the first place).  The Scarecrow a) has power entirely outside the nature of any of the other Fetches, which Harry identifies at the end of PG as "Black Council" modus operandi and b) has Harry's power fade out when it somes to near, in ways much more similar to Lord Raith's Outsider-backed immunity in BR than to just being too strong for it (cf. Ursiel in DM, "Grum" in SK).  This leads me to suspect the Scarecrow is an Outsider-plus-allies agent who has the run of Arctis Tor.

The frontal assault by some Denarian - supposedly Namshiel though Mab avoids confirming this directly and makes great effort to distract Harry when he suggests it - is a rescue mission.  The whole point is to blow away enough goblins and trolls that Harry and company have a hope of getting into Arctis Tor. 

Theory: The scarecrow is boosted by Outsider power.

This is Neurovore's hypothesis. I believe it's the smartest part of Neurovore's theory, and the one which led Jim to ask:
Quote
Dear god.  Are you a CIA analyst or something?
Now some may doubt it, but remember: Mab needs a motive for kidnapping Molly, and according to a WOJ, the damage to the Winter Well was not planned. Here are Neurovore's arguments:
Quote
The Scarecrow is a "Black Council" agent - in this case a Circle agent.

Compare, Harry, p.476 of PG pb: "Consider all these things running around with more power than they should have had."  With p.366 ibid "This thing was no fetch, no changer of form and image and illusion. There was no shadowy mask over an amorphous form, no glamour altering its appearance, which my salve would have enabled me to see through.  This thing was a whole independent creature.  Except maybe it was a fetch so old and strong... "  (Emphasis mine.)  The "old strong fetch" theory is not what one might call confirmed.

Compare also, p. 368 ibid, "A lance of flame as thick as my wrist lashed out from the tip of the rod - and died two feet away from it, the burning energy of the strike swallowed by an unfathomable ocean of cold cold power."  That's not how entities toughing it out against Harry's fire from sheer resilience behave - see Grum in Reuel's apartment in SK, see Ursiel in DM.  What it is reminiscent of is Lord Raith's immunity to magic. Which we are pretty certain is Outsider based, which leads back to the Circle again.

The Scarecrow is an entity that has been let into Arctis Tor by some agreement Mab is held to under duress.  Mab's motivation in manipulating Harry is not only to get Summer to flatten the Reds, but also to be rid of the Scarecrow in a deniable way.

To play devil's advocate to myself, and expand from a line of reasoning JRBobC was suggesting in the other thread:

Suppose the Scarecrow is only an old strong fetch.  Suppose Mab is willing to sacrifice it for the sake of getting Summer to flatten the Reds.  Suppose the Circle have nothing directly to do with anything in PG.  It holds together pretty much equally well, if you don't find the observations I make above convincing, and leaves the athame-vectored craziness as a separate piece of plotting entirely.

There is also the other element of how Harry got into Arctis Tor to consider in each case.  There's nothing defending Arctis Tor but some fetches, because something, armed with Hellfire, took out a small army of goblins and a pack of trolls. 

(Given that Harry knows Hellfire, I think we can rule out the Scarecrow's unfetchlike powers being Denarian-based, fwiw.)

The theory in the spoiler tag is completely wrong. -Elegast
(click to show/hide)

Some rules about this thread

Plz refrain from talking about
  • Little Chicago
  • Molly = Mab

WOJ about PG

Quote
Yeah.  It sure looks that way from here, don't it.

But to correct some minor stuff:  the fetches aren't even /close/ to her strongest servitors.  They're her couriers, harassers, spies and occasional assassins.  Captain Kudzu was a being that was deemed more-or-less sufficient on the badassometer, but nothing to write home about.  The fetches main use, to Mab, isn't as battlefield thugs.  She's got /plenty/ of other things for that.  Another mild correction:  who says Mab /lost/ the battle at Arctis Tor, before Harry and Company arrived?  At the end of the day, the Winter Queen was still in her fortress--but you didn't see anyone standing around assaulting the place, did ya.   Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments--exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

(Which goes to show that while Mab may be canny to an inhuman degree, she isn't infallible.  Just way closer to infallible than us.)

See above regarding "the question is *why*?" 

Ask yourself why Mab had Molly brought in.  What chain of events did that set in motion?  What secondary effects came about because of it?  Ultimately, Mab can always go to the Wyld and draw in more muscle to replace fallen thugs.  If worst comes to worst, with just a few "seed" fae, she could rear up enough Changelings to repopulate her cadre within a human generation or two--nothing, to a being thousands of years old. 

As far as she's concerned, everyone and everything is expendable, including herself, when it comes to adhering to her (seemingly irrational and inexplicable) priorities.

(And by the way--don't think Titania is much better.  When push came to shove, she let her own daughter be murdered rather than upset the balance of the Faerie Courts.  At least Mab is up front about it.  Usually.)

Sacrifice her best troops?  Mab would sacrifice every creature *in* Winter, every one she could bring from Summer, and every single mortal on planet Earth if that's what she thought was appropriate.  And she wouldn't even need to add extra sugar to her cup of tea afterwards, much less lose sleep over it.

But no one does cold-blooded like the Queen of Winter.  Mab's been in the business a long time, she's got a balance sheet, and she is *not* going to come out in the red--

--unless, of course, she really *has* stripped a gear, as Lily and Maeve believe.  In which case there's a stark raving bonkers demigoddess whose powers are no longer being held in check by the Escher-esque code of Sidhe behavior.  And that's all kinds of bad.

But hey.  It's probably not that.  I mean, not *everything* that happens can be the absolute worst possible possibility, right?

Jim

13
DF Reference Collection / WOJ: Hexenwufl solved
« on: April 28, 2012, 02:07:09 PM »
There is a WOJ saying that some of you solved the Hexenwulf problem. I tried to find it with the search , but got nothing. Could someone enlighten me?


Curator edit
Reply #1 says what the general consensus spuspect is
Reply #5 quotes a WoJ saying this
Reply #50 links the belts from Love Hurts (and more reasoning below that at #59)
Reply #57 summarizes any other likely suspects


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