A comment on another chat got me thinking. A lot of villains have asked why harry is poor when he can use his talents to be rich. Nic, las,and other have said he should be living it up. On the hand their is a woj that the Winter knight is not a paying job becoz Mab thinking only an idioit would fail to make money from being the Wk( which explains harry's financial issues kkk).
In other books about the war harry states that rhe W council has a whole is rich. So how would a wizard make make money in the modern world.
Harry in book 1 and 2 admits he once sold a wileight loss potion. Bob ( bless his soul if he has one ) suggests breast enhancement potions

Okay hear me out. We know the major players have been watching harry and in Chicago for sometime now. What if only a starborn can trigger the end of the world. Like the final conformation that harry is the Starborn rather than a starborn was doing the impossible. Macfinns bloodline can only end at the end of the world. It was an alarm clock for the major players. Like when the last of the bloodline died (thor voice) 'it was a signal that we are switches to (dr stange voice) in the endgame now.
Those who know what to look for immediately know that only the Starborn could have done it. I little research shows its harry. Those who had doubts are convinced.

I always thought of a mantle like being elected president/ PM or becoming a general or a teacher. The mantle are the duties of the post. Like as a teacher you have to maintain discipline in your class. You have wiggle room of how you would achieve it. As a president/PM you personally don't like high taxes and promise to cut them. Bam the mantle of Pm is yours. You cut taxes and the market and economy crash. You end up increasing the taxes. Over time u end up making choices similar to the old guy. I see mantles working the same way. Molly is currently trying to make it her own but eventually she is going to come across a situation where the duties of the winter lady force her to make decisions similar to Maeve. There is wiggle room to make your own impact in the role but at times the only option is the bad one

Saw an interesting post on one of the fb groups that part of the reason why the WC members hate harry is the favouritism shown to him.
Can't remember the og post and poster. So i will
Just list some of the thinks i think may cause people to hate him.

1) instead of killing him, eb served him becoz he mentored his mother. 2) he advertises himself in the media 3) he started a war with the red council (sure it wasn't his fault but theh don't know that) 4 he's anti social. Harry doesn't attend council meetings unless forced. 5) he doesn't get that hes guven special treatment. How many young wizards are in contact with SC members to the extent harry is

I think we can safely rule ou on line learning.

Wait it could work
Imagine harry shouting instruction to paranoid gary who passes it on to a friend/sibling or parent who shouts it to their kid. Great game of broken telephone

So the question remains, what happened to the other two?  My tin foil hat guess,  ::)or maybe not so tin foil, is the Council felt threatened by the power of the island and the leyline that runs under it.  Considering what they went through with Kemmler, whom trying to tap into the power of the leyline and became totally corrupted and dangerous by it, decided to bump off the two newer Wardens.  Considering that Harry seemed to be set up to get the boot from the Council, and the Blackstaff possible orders to do him in.. It is my guess that Eb killed off the other two Wardens on Council orders..

My theory in another thread is that the island corrupts the warden if a weak minded person gets it. Hence harry being prepared to resist the island

There is a WOJ that Odin traded his immortality to be able to continue to operate in the mortal world, and took on the Kringle Mantle to regain immortality.

I wonder actually if Odin’s immortality went into the Kringle Mantle. It’s the kind of sneaky thing he would do. Trade in his immortality as a huge sacrifice to be rewarded with the Mantle. I think KrIngle must have a partial intellectus, he knows whether everyone has been naughty or nice I.e. he has knowledge of a persons good and bad deeds, at least over the last year. That would be consistent with the lore and  the use of intellectus in the Files. For someone in the Security Business that would be nice. He doesn’t need to vet people. If so he would have known immediately about Marcone picking up the coin. That would suggest he is keeping close to Marcone for that reason, and is doing the same now with Lara.

Everyone at the level of immortal is generally prohibited from living in the Mortal World the exceptions being the Queens, Ladies and Kringle (the Mothers power levels are so great they can’t without warping it). You can give it up, live in the NeverNever, or suffer Demonreach.

Now the Erl King is an immortal but the Wild Hunt rides in the mortal world. Did he undertake Vassallage to Mab to permit this? It surprised me in Battle Ground that he was Mab’s Vassal, but there would have to be some reason why he would agree to be so bound.

The other free- roaming immortals are the Naagloshii, and they are tied to a particular geographical area. If they break that is it Demonreach? There are at least half a dozen in there.

My thought is that the Ladies Mantles were imbued with just enough power to render their wearers immortal. The Queen’s with just enough to avoid reality breaking down too badly around them, the Mother’s with enough for full intellectus.

The Angels are immortal but are again subject to restrictions.

The key seems to have been be weaker than Mab to stay in the mortal world. Being immortal is just an added bonus of great power. Sort of if u reach a certain level of magic power. Boom u are immortal. Strength of a river is young to his kin yet 1000s old. I think the more magic you have the less mortal u are. Wizards seem tk grow more powerful in magic as they age and they reach 300s. Irvine was young but as strong as harry. He doesn't get sick etc. May is ur really strong u get immortality has a side effect

As I said, Harry and Elaine could probably each manage 2.  Three at once, maybe, but that would be pushing it.  It takes years to properly train a Council-level Talent, and do it right, and it takes a lot of attention.  This would be especially true in the case of Talents who had either already started to go wrong, or who had the native personality to be difficult.

The more apprentices you try to train at once, the less attention each one can get, the less personalized the training can be, and the more chance of something important slipping through the cracks.

The vocational school model doesn't work for Wizard training.  There isn't just a set specific body of skills that have to be taught, at that level each student has their own requirements and has to be taught individually.  It's also about philosophies, attitudes, the moral aspects of magic, proper habits of thought and necessary self-discipline.  It's about the master recognizing the particular weaknesses and strengths of the student, it can't be entire standardized.  What worked for teaching Molly would fail teaching someone else, and vice versa.  What worked well for Harry would not have worked well for Elaine, and vice versa, because of their different personalities and native strengths and weaknesses.

I'm sure you could teach some of the basics in a group-class setting, but as soon as you started getting into the high-end stuff that model would fail.

The baby warden school was just that, all they were doing was trying to accelerate specific Warden training, not the overall training to make a Council wizard.  And even there, it wasn't doing as good a job as they would have liked, it was just necessitated by the war emergency.

But even if you assume just 20 a year, you still need at least 7 full Wizards to teach them, assuming 3 per master, 10 Wizards if it's 2 per master.  Some of those students will be hard cases who absolutely need the full 100% attention of a master, which makes it worse.  Harry does not have even 7 full Council level Wizards to do the teaching.  In practice, to teach 20 students would probably realistically need at least 10 Wizards to master them.

And that's just the first year.  A year later you get another 20, but the Wizards from last year are still teaching the first round of students, Harry now needs 10 more Wizards.  Let's be conservative/hopeful and say three years can turn a new student into a Wizard.  (I suspect it usually takes longer, but let's be optimistic.)  That means you need thirty full Wizards, with the right mindset and skills for teaching, to get 20 students a year through the process.  In the fourth year the first round of students 'graduate' and the first ten masters can take 2 new students each.

So Harry needs, at a realistic minimum, 30 skilled Wizards to teach 20 students a year for 3 years a student.  That's not ideal, that's minimum, ideally he would want twice that many to really do it right.

Plus he still needs the equivalent of a force of Wardens to be the enforcers, too.  That's separate of the teaching staff.

Molly has specific talents, yes.  So does Harry and any practitioner.  She's still a full Council-level talent and has vast potentials Mort will never equal, outside his one narrow specialty.

No, he's a major-level sub-Council talent.  His abilities by themselves are not sufficient to make him a world-level player.

No doubt.  It doesn't matter.  That fact that he's better than they are in that one narrow area doesn't make up for their vast superiority at the other 95%.  I'm sure Binder is better than Harry at his one specialty, too.  Victor Sells could probably teach Harry a few things about sex magic.  That doesn't make Victor a peer of Harry.
Um...no.  The Council is still doing vastly more good at a large scale than they could do.

We see the Council's negative side because we see it through Harry's eyes.  His first encounter with them was them putting him on trial for his life for defending himself.  He hates the very idea of executing children for breaking rules they didn't even know about.  He hates the Council's elitist tendency, even as he recognizes the necessity of it.  He really really hates the Council's hypocrisy.

BUT...over the years Harry has reluctantly been forced to admit that a lot of the stuff he hates is necessary.  Also, the Council and the Church are the two main factors that have enabled civilization to rise as high as it has in the last few centuries.  The Council is the main reason why the average mundane doesn't believe in supernatural monsters anymore:  the Council has imprisoned/destroyed most of the worst of them, and forces the rest to keep their heads down most of the time.  The Council is the main force that kept the Red Court, the White Court, and some degree the Black Court from running unchecked.  The Enlightenment was a Council project that got somewhat out of hand.

Plus, of course, Kemmler.

Even Karrin had to admit, in a backhanded, resentful compliment, that the Council were running themselves ragged keeping the world from blowing up in the instability that followed the fall of the Red Court.

As frustrating and hidebound and hypocritical as the White Council is, the world of Dresden would be a far, far worse place without them.

True. The world is a better place with them
A real world problem with revolution that remove government or power block such as WC is what will u replace them with. A lot of times it a case of meet the new boss same as the old one. If the WC falls the world will be a darker place. Until it is replaced. Think league of nations and UN. One was an incompetent organization that failed at preventing Ww2. The other is a slightly more competent organization that has failed to prevent small wars but succeeded at preventing WW3