[ Spoilers for Changes ]

That aside, I think you're totally right about the Necromantic Thaumaturgy at Evocation speed -- I wouldn't let someone set up and perform a long ritual to handle this kind of thing (like with Biomancy) while the patient is bleeding out.  Given the circumstances, I don't think anyone other than a Necromancer COULD have saved that thug's life.  Even if you happened to have a White Council Master of Biomancy (like Injun Joe) right on hand with sufficient lore for the purpose, it would have taken him a few exchanges to run the ritual -- it was vital that Kumori could step up and stop him from dying RIGHT THEN before he could bleed out.

Not that this has much to do with the mechanics of the RPG, but I'd bet that the only fundamental difference between evocation magic and thaumaturgy is the caster's own ability to perform one on the fly and not the other. By this, I don't mean to just restate the definitions of evocation and thaumaturgy; I mean that I think there is literally no real difference between an evocation spell and a thaumaturgical spell, other than the caster's own proficiency at casting the spell in question.

Harry says over and over again that magic is in the mind. I'd bet that if Harry practiced such a mental ritual over and over and over again, for years, he could effectively turn it into a form of evocation magic for himself.

I'd also bet that this is essentially the difference between the Senior Council and the younger wizards. The SC has so much practice and skill that they can snap their fingers and throw up a spell that would take Harry all day to perform, if he could manage it at all. And as their skill with those kinds of spells increased, new forms of thaumaturgy came into their reach-- things they probably couldn't even imagine when they were younger, much less have any hope of casting.

I started thinking this was probably the case when Harry's skill with Little Chicago jumped so much between Proven Guilty and White Night. In PG, he had to prepare for hours before he felt ready to use Little Chicago, and even then he wasn't sure about his chances. In WN, though, after teaching Molly for a year, it only took him fifteen minutes to get ready, and he had no worries about successfully casting the spell. I figure, in a few more years, Harry might be able to perform the spell immediately. It's also entirely within the realm of possibility for Harry to gradually remove the trappings of the ritual as he continues to practice, replacing them with their mental counterparts. Once he had removed all of the objects, he would have effectively turned a thaumaturgical spell into an evocation spell.

The same mental techniques that he used to prepare himself for LC probably carried over to some of his other spells, too-- which means that Harry was bringing a whole group of spells within reach of becoming evocation magic for him. And if Harry's skill could increase that much in only a few years, it's hard to even imagine how much the Senior Council's level of skill could have increased beyond a wizard's baseline. They've each had hundreds of years to practice, re-think what they know, and build on new insights.

Admittedly, though, Harry's increase in skill was largely due to taking Molly on as his apprentice. By teaching her, Harry was forced to go back and re-think things that he already knew, seeing them with a deeper understanding than he had the first time through. And Molly's natural talents lay in very different areas than Harry's do, so he had to practice with things he'd never been good at before, until he could cast those kinds of spells with a halfway-decent amount of skill. He probably wouldn't have made such a huge effort in those areas if he hadn't been teaching Molly. I'd imagine that most wizards don't have that kind of impetus to keep getting better, year after year; at least, not on a daily basis, like Harry's had lately. So, even some of the older wizards wouldn't necessarily have a huge advantage of skill over some of the younger ones.

People like the Senior Council members, though, are probably some of the more well-motivated types. It seems possible that their skills could have been increasing steadily for the last three hundred years or more.

Take the meat and add some condiments and egg (as if you were planning to do meat balls). Then take a rectangle of aluminium foil. Extend the condimented meat over the aluminium, making a thin layer. Press well, to make the meat compact.  Then, put some raw veggies and/or some boiled egg (you can also add cheese) near one of the long laterals (parallel to it). Mine had some bell peppers today. Then began rolling the meat with the aluminium to help you (as if it were a mini carpet that you wanted to transport). Each time you complete a turn  you have to press the meat to make it firmer, more compact. (You don't have to make an aluminium roll, just use it to help you working with the meat). It looks like a bread (that is why it is called "meat bread" here). Then, just put it in the pre-heated oven. When it is quite cooked, add some parmesan to melt over the meat!

Ah-Ha!  That would be a Roulad!  Meat, either a regular cut either cut thin, then sometimes pounded thiner, or why the heck NOT ground beef(?), laid out flat then spread with a 'stuffing' of some kind, can be actual bread stuffing, a rice stuffing, or a vegetable mixture, then rolled up and cooked!  I've had pork with a spinach rice mixture in it... very tasty, and seen it on a cooking show with beef with an Italian mixture in it.  The ground beef sounds very good too!  Verry verrrrry good!  Hmmmm! 

Hrm. So, you could maybe take some ground beef, add some garlic and onion to it, maybe basil and oregano, layer on some pasta sauce, then line some mozzarella, ricotta, and parmesan cheese over it, roll it up, and cook it? Kind of like a burrito, only with a meat shell instead of a tortilla shell?

Hrm. That sounds really good now.

In the meantime, can we get some links to the software you've tried?  Just to be sure we don't grab the wrong thing and post a link to something similar named that's infested with adware or somesuch.

Sure. I use Mozilla Firefox, with an add-on called Adblock Plus, which lets you block annoying spam images and such, preventing them from being displayed on your screen.

If you use Firefox, you can download the Add-on from the official Mozilla site here. That link goes directly to the Adblock Plus page at the official Mozilla Corporation website, so there should be no need to worry about adware or other viruses.

I personally would be more creeped out by an intact doll.  The discarded toy is cool and spooky for me.  Regular dolls are bad creepy.    I don't like dolls.

Hrm. In the interests of trying to figure out where we all fit on the creeped-out spectrum, who here thinks clowns are creepy?

*raises hand*

For the record, my post was just meant to be a semi-humorous comment about how creepy the thing was. I wasn't trying to call for a ban on the creepiness or anything. I just did what I always do when I see an avatar that I'm pretty sure I don't want to have to keep looking at: I set my browser to block the image. Problem solved, from my perspective.

NO. In fact, I think Icecream's avatar has taken the 'Cutest Puppy Avatar Award' away from Acorn. It's a sad day, but less good things happen.

Maybe so, but is her avatar a picture of a Foo Dog puppy? I think not!

It may be she didn't know what else to do, so imitated Harry just to have a job. I agree Harry's teaching experiences forced him to get better, but I'd also include access to Bob as a real bonus for Harry. I think Harry is flat out stronger, with less control, but I think he's gained a lot of control and would be more powerful than Elaine, except for possible sneakiness/deception on her part.

Yeah, that's true. I think about what a huge advantage Bob is fairly often, but I hardly ever remember to mention it when considering Harry's skill improvements. Bob was obviously indispensable while Harry was creating Little Chicago, for instance, and I have to wonder how much input he had while Harry was creating his new shield bracelet, or while Harry was designing things like his new lab circle. And that's not even considering the gradual, daily accumulation of information which Harry gains from having Bob to talk to. And Harry likely would've been dead many times over, over the course the series, if he hadn't had Bob to go to for information about whichever new thing was threatening his existence that week.

Jim,

Bob mentioned early on in the series that Elaine was always better than Harry at magic, more naturally skilled. Later, Elaine complimented Harry on his shield and told him she wasn't sure she could have done as good a job. Since then, Harry's skill has presumably progressed further by teaching Molly.

Is Elaine still more skilled than Harry at this point, or has he caught up with her or surpassed her?