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Messages - Yuillegan

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1291
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 24, 2018, 11:10:25 PM »
morriswalters - I hope I haven't caused you offense. Perhaps we will discuss it further one day. And by "all of the fey" you mean some I think...at that particular battle several characters and creatures were described specifically using other weapons (e.g trolls with clubs, fey with spears, Winter Lady and Queen etc.) But really we are talking about humans, not creatures of magic. Specifically Wizards - who largely rely on magic for combat. My memory of the humans that use swords are (the 4 knights of the cross - butters only technically, Nicodemus himself - I don't recall ANY other Denarians using swords as most rely on their Fallen's monster form, Lloyd Slate and Fix - as Winter and Summer Knight respectively) But most don't (the Denarian squires use guns, Kincaid doesn't use any swords - though he isn't strictly speaking human, none of the cops other than Murphy, None of the Black Court Vampires, only some of the Reds - they also use obsidian axes and blades rather than traditional swords, the White Court Vampires do - but they also use guns and explosives just as much and are considered the most modern of the Vampire Courts, Charity uses hammers, Molly doesn't use swords, none of the priests, not Marcone or his people apart from Gard who is probably a Valkyrie etc.)

Harry likely learned fencing like everyone else does - in a class. Fencing classes are everywhere. But the only teach fencing as a sport, anyone old school (like Morgan or Luccio or Grevane etc.) would have learned it not for sport but for defense. Warden's likely learn it from each other. He has fought twice I believe as he normally likes to express Earth Magic through his sword cane - primarily electromagnetism. He has used the blade though, I will have a search around for the text. But he does it rarely, as like most wizards he relies heavily on magic in combat. Sword users that have been described, especially humans are in the minority in the series. Don't get me wrong, I love sword fights and duels. Great stuff to watch, I have seen many acted out and been to many fencing competitions not to mention watching many online. I have actually seen the JB proposal which was very sweet. But none of this means that Swords are common to humans (especially magic humans) in the series.

Maz - I think you are confusing Harry piercing veils with magic and his powers of deduction. He recognised Talos and Korrick through process of elimination (he knew Auror was behind the theft of power, meaning her people would be the one's with her but he didn't "see through" the veils sphysically. He would have had to use his Sight). I believe in the Mavra case you are referring to is when he first meets her at Bianca's ball. In that case he used his magical "sense" to work out where an invisible person was - but again did not "see" through the veil. He would have had to call upon his Sight. Which he does to Ariana during the duel with her - but any practitioner with the Sight could do such a thing. It is hardly unique to Harry. He is frequently missing veils actually (Cowl and Kumori snuck up on him, Elaine and Korrick catch him straight off guard despite almost being on top of him, Martha Liberty was only feet from him an Ebenezar yet he wasn't even slightly aware of her and Listen's to Wind etc.)

Would you recognise her? Even with a physical disguise that obscured her body shape and face, and a magic voice distorter?  Its conjecture anyway. The fact is Harry does not recognise Kumori. We can only speculate as to why. Perhaps he wouldn't recognise Faith or Jenny after so many years even without all the other disguises, but we cannot know this. And likely if Faith, Jenny and Elaine were all in a room with him wearing a simple mask he probably would only recognise Elaine if anyone. Because of how well he knows her. But if Elaine were Kumori, all the more reason to hide every recognisable part of herself. You don't argue the impact of Elaine, but we do have the facts that support Elaine over the other two (including that the reveal of Kumori will hurt Harry alot) and yet as I understand your argument to be it couldn't be Elaine because Harry is hyper-observant. But if Kumori's disguise trumps Harry's observational skills then your only reason that it couldn't be Elaine falls apart. Realistically if you were a detective trying to work out who Kumori was would you pick the person who most fit the facts or pick a person who might fit one or two of the facts? Does it really stretch belief that it was Elaine in front of him the whole time in disguise? It is a common trope. Not to mention, it actually happened already with Elaine in Summer Knight. She was with the villains from the start yet he couldn't see it at all. Harry has a huge blind spot when it comes to women, especially in the earlier books and especially ones who seem vulnerable. It is constantly used against him.

Raidem - Ah yes I remember that theory. It would be an excellent betrayal. However as we don't yet know how time travel works in the series, it is still a bit of a long shot. Remember Vadderung says that it is difficult and extremely dangerous to mess with the past - not to mention the Law of Conservation of History (as Harry calls it - the effect Odin describes is that events in the past tend to happen always the same way as there is a quality similar to inertia at work). However I could see it being regular old Maggie Snr who has transcended her Death.
I haven't yet read the Amber Chronicles - it is on my to-do list - but in Amber is the lady that returns a significant character? And does is her return a major plot point? Does it have a long lasting effect on the main character? Was there a lot of foreshadowing? And same applies to the girlfriend. And by "bad actor" do you mean villain or is that a specific type of being or class that exists in the Amber Chronicles?

1292
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 24, 2018, 01:41:51 AM »
Cowl would be a fool not to tell Elaine of all the players if she was acting as his conscious proxy.  Harsh taskmaster or not. This doesn't eliminate her but neither does it give her a head up over other obvious suspects.
I understand your point. However we are assuming that everyone is all on the same side. There is a theory that even amongst the various villains in the series that there is a larger power play with different groups trying to achieve their own ends. In general I think the other reasons I have outlined give her a heads up over the other possibilities.

There is no observable point at which someone becomes dead. Death is a process that at some point becomes irreversible from the pov of the dying.  When that point occurs depends on how you get to the point.  A head shot pretty much gets you there quick. on the other hand children have been revived after being  submerged in cold water for more than two hours.  Harry, say thank you Mab.I have experienced high levels of pain and find it a deterrent to higher level reasoning.  Your mileage may vary. Or maybe he just had an off day and got killed.  In combat someone lives and someone dies, at least in it's simplest form.

Well sure there is. Not to the naked eye, but certainly we have developed machines and methods that allow us to measure and observe heart rate and brain activity. When the activity falls below a certain threshold - you are declared dead. If your brain activity falls below, it never recovers. Hence why shooting someone in the head is generally so effective. I understand where you are going with this but I think you miss Mab's point. It is Mortal humans who believe that once you "die" it is irreversible. Mab contests this and say that is not true, we just cannot appreciate or generally recreate how we can come back. I think there is a larger philosophical argument here about the nature of death e.g. if you were atomized or decomposed but were completely restored, are you still you? For that to work, a soul becomes crucial as the constant "you" that survives all states of change. Hence the immortal(read: unchanging) soul. But Mab is saying that Death is just a state of change, which both scientifically and metaphorically it is. There is no "end" just the changing of one state to another.

On the matter of swords, you really haven't seen a whole lot of wizards, one way or the other.  But of the wizards you've seen swords don't seem all that unusual.  In point of fact almost all of the supernatural characters in the Dresden Files involve themselves with swordplay.
Well while the White Council has been described - but not many Wizards have been described in individual detail. Most of the Wizards on-screen have been Warden's, Harry or Necromancers. But of the other Wizards - none of the senior council, none of the warlocks, no regular practitioners, only one of the necromancers, none of the grey council...it doesn't seem like many regular Wizards carry swords. I believe in one of the earlier books Harry mentions how most Wizards prefer to just study and hide away from the world and he is the weird one for trying to fight all the time. Even Ebenezar the Blackstaff actually doesn't use a sword - even if he did as a young Warden (though we have no confirmation of that). And I disagree - relatively few characters use swords compared to the whole of the supernatural characters shown in the books. Can you name enough examples? Especially those that use them and don't just carry them decoratively (like Ferrovax or Mavra).

Raidem - love the idea that someone would be brought back, but probs not as an uber-necromancer. More likely a ghost or revenant wouldn't you say? For such a minor character. I could see Susan coming back as a nemesis..but I hope not. I think it might be good to let that story lie where it is. Maybe Maggie Le Fay?

1293
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 23, 2018, 03:50:23 AM »
Thank you Snark Knight, for addressing a few of those points. As SK says, Harry is only observant when it suits the plot. Harry completely failed to notice Molly being in love with him, or that the Grey Lady was Molly (and Leah for that matter), he failed to recognise Lasciel's return in Skin Game and he didn't figure out the Kravos/Nightmare situation until it was way too late - and many more besides. Frequently he only figures these things out at the worst time and only survives by the skin of his teeth. He may eventually figure them out, but I think he has a long way to go. They haven't shown up for a while and I'd say we are well overdue for seeing them so likely another encounter will be in the coming book.

I will do my best to address your points individually:

Groinkick - Very true there is a big difference in that respect, and yes I do feel that Jim wouldn't go into such dark territory normally. However even if that part of my theory is wrong, I believe I am close. Perhaps not twins by blood, but by ritual or some such. I think their connection is a deep one. 

Con - What major plot hole? To your other point, I think it is still reasonable after 10 years roughly that Cowl (if he were Justin) would be interested to see how powerful his former student had become. He also acts rather like a disappointed teacher when Harry proves to be such an unworthy opponent. Justin would be familiar with the Wizard that Harry was at 16, not at 26 (by which point Harry head defeated several dangerous sorcerers, minor demons, started a war with the Red Court and killed one of their nobles, stopped a war between the faerie courts and killed a faerie queen - no minor act considering it hadn't happened for almost 1000 years, and defeated several Denarians). I think he was very interested to see how powerful his former apprentice had become. I had not read that information from the Paranet Papers, which I think is interesting however not evidence enough to exclude Justin or make Simon a more likely Cowl. I was persuaded by the Simon argument for a while but I feel that the theory does not fit the facts as neatly as the Justin Dumorne theory.

Maz - I have answered the first part of your comment above. I am confused somewhat by the fact that you believe that because Harry was a few feet from Kumori he should have recognised her. We know that Cowl and Kumori have gone to great lengths to protect their identities through both physical disguise and magic, why then would Harry the Brawler be able to see through their artifice? They both are likely better at that subtle stuff than Harry is and Justin and Elaine both know how Harry thinks, meaning they could tailor it specifically so that he would personally find it difficult to recognise them. And if Faith or Jenny, why did not recognise them? According to your argument he surely should have recognised them by their voice, smell, magic etc. No, I suspect they are not likely candidates. If you were Jim and you wanted to torture Harry (and by extension his readers) who would you pick to make the most damaging impact? Elaine. He knows Elaine intimately, as you say (though the psychic communication is a spell using neuromancy, he could choose to do it with anyone but it is borderline illegal and he invented it with Elaine and they supposedly trust each other) so the pain of her betrayal will be worse than Faith (who he has met once) or Jenny (who he didn't know anywhere near as well).

Peregrine - A reasonable argument, sure. But being "fairly confident" about something doth buttered no parsnips. Harry is constantly reassessing his history and what he believed. He thought he had no family, he thought his mother and likely his father (malcolm) died of natural causes, he thought Eb was just a nice old wizard who raised him well, he thought Thomas was a terrible monster, he thought Kincaid was human, he thought Leah was out to kill him, he though HWWBH was just some demon (not a major Outsider) etc. What Harry was sure of is only mildly trustworthy at best (especially when it comes to events in his past), not to mention things is only "fairly confident" of. The Name argument is a strong one and my counter is two-fold. One, he wouldn't need to know all of who she is to get her Name right. We are constantly reminded in the earlier books the danger of speaking your Name to another person. You don't need to know exactly what the fish looks like in order to spear it, only to see enough of it and have a good enough method to catch it. A clumsy analogy perhaps, but I am a bit pressed for time. Two, JB unfortunately retcons and creates plot holes all over the shop. I suspect this could be one of them if it came down to it.

morriswalters - SK mostly answered your comment for me. Justin teaches and learned in the school of hard knocks, there are many memories Harry has of his harsh lessons. I suspect he expects everyone to be capable on their own merits. In that particular scenario, one should note Kumori and Elaine are not as major brawlers as other evocation specialists and that the Skavis snuck up on her, which is the bane of every Wizard as JB keeps reiterating. Baby Bickett took me a moment, did you mean the injured Beckett child that Marcone feels responsible for? I mean it is possible but that child wouldn't affect Harry on the personal level someone close to him like Elaine or Susan or Murphy would...it is more a way to get at Marcone if anything. I mean the whole Beckett child thing is not something Harry felt responsible for - he just is sad that it happened.

As for the sword, you must remember how uncommon it is that Wizards fight in direct combat, let alone duels. Harry is definitely an outlier compared to the majority of Wizards and even Wardens. The only reason you see more guns amongst the Wardens is that so many of the old guard were killed and Harry was by far and away leading that pack of new guards carrying modern weapons. Harry having a sword cane that he would use, in any fight, is just plain odd by most standards. Especially as he had it long before he was a Warden. Even only one other Wizard who wasn't a Warden carried a sword, and that was the Corpsetaker. And we really don't know much of his past. Luccio carries a sword not merely as as a secondary combat tool, but as a symbol of office and as an anti-magic tool. Yes it was popular with her generation and with most generations right up until the mid 1900s, but mostly the end of the 1800s. Death by magic (to human mortals) is indeed black magic, but Wardens don't just exist to kill Warlocks. That was mostly Harry's (somewhat justified) prejudices. They do spend a lot of time fighting monsters of the more-than-mortal sort, more so really than they do hunt down Warlocks.

When Mab referred to Death as a spectrum, she was not specifically or even indirectly referring to Necromancy and its ability to bring the dead back to life. I suspect the reason they did not simply raise Bone Tony is that having already tortured and killed him, Grevane arrogantly assumed that he had no more useful information. They picked on Butters as they assumed he might have knowledge that they had missed. Kumori's inability to heal a man who had crossed over does not indicate that could not do so under other circumstances, or that another could not do so using Necromancy. She already had pulled off a feat normally reserved for Gods and other similarly powerful beings. What I believe Mab was referring to was the fact that Mortals believe Death to be the end of existence, which is only true up to a point. By all logic in the Dresden Files, once you die you move on to whatever afterlife awaits you which is another form of existence. True oblivion (where you do not exist at all and are not conscious in anyway) might only exist in certain circumstances, but merely dying in the Mortal plane does not take you there. Perhaps some beings mortals and immortals alike might not have an afterlife (e.g. vampires, gods, demons, faeries and animals) but we have no knowledge of that in the Dresden Files. To answer your last bit about Death Curses - who says he needed to verbalise the Curse? By all accounts only by killing a Wizard before they are aware they are dying (which includes Grevane, who simply refused to recognise he was dying) such as using almost instaneous methods allows you to avoid them. Having been burnt myself, and having witnessed some terrible burning incidents in the line of duty I can tell you that while people freak out, unfortunately you can still think. You are not simply aware of the pain - you are aware of the danger and you are conscious enough to try and take action. It is all the more terrifying because you are aware. Besides, despite how many achievements Harry has achieved killing a highly experienced warden with fire magic because he was scared seems implausible. Justin had survived many engagements and as a Warden would have been very capable of fighting. He may have been caught off guard, but he might have also diverted his remaining strength into surviving. He could have opened a Way or switched bodies - most survivors tend to be the ones that rabbit earlier rather than later. If you wait too long you die. End of.

A few interesting things I would like to point out - Cowl has scarred arms. Scars from what? Burns perhaps? Hell of a feature just to throw in there about Cowl. JB is a lazy writer remember.
Also when Harry talks to his Id - normally there is a secondary message that become relevant later (headaches, lasciel, being too closed off etc). In Dead Beat, he discusses Dumorne with his Id several times. It would fit JB's style to an extent to lay the foundations for Cowl's reveal in the first book he is introduced. 
Finally, I really appreciate the debate from all of you. I enjoy testing the strength of my arguments and hearing others opinions. I would love though if someone can rebut anything or provide an alternative to the points I mentioned better - which some of you have but on balance most of my arguments for their identities remain intact. There has not yet been a strong enough counter-argument or counter-theory that I think rules out my theory as to the identities of Cowl and Kumori. But I am sure someone will have a go and I look forward to the challenge!

1294
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 21, 2018, 06:46:58 AM »
An interesting argument. Certainly possible at any rate. I don't remember that particular WOJ about her identity being someone that will hurt Harry but I am not doubting it either. Makes much more sense though if Kumori is Elaine, particularly in the context on Cowl being Justin.

It seems to me though that most of the reasons you justify Faith being Kumori work just as well for Elaine. The age of Kumori, the fact it will hit in right in the heart, even the femme fatale turning coat on her organisation.

I suspect thought the reason Harry doesn't recognise Kumori is that she is deliberately concealing herself. Her voice, her physical features, it isn't a stretch to say she could hide her magical signature. Elaine by all accounts is better at magic, especially the subtler parts, than Dresden. Kumori and Cowl have definitely shown knowledge and power outweighing Dresden. He mostly gets lucky when he has beaten them.

Elaine being Kumori does not necessarily demand that she is Evil. After all, Kumori is not necessarily evil. Few villains, especially humans, consider themselves the bad guy. Cowl and Kumori have both stated they believe they are working for the greater good, and that what they do is a necessary evil. Elaine has also shown a similar mindset in Summer Knight, believing herself trapped but fighting from within. Which makes all the more sense when you consider if Kumori is Elaine, she is enthralled by a bunch of mind magic spells making her loyal to Justin. She only can do what she can with in her limits to help Harry. But perhaps like any person in a cult, she has begun to drink the Kool-Aid.

And I also wonder if Elaine will become the Summer Knight. It has a certain symmetry, all the more if she is the other Starborn and Dresden's opposite. It has a duality. It also makes sense in terms of her being Kumori, WOJ is the Titania will only start showing up a lot more towards the BAT, the Circle having their own faerie knight balances the tables.

1295
DF Spoilers / Re: Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 21, 2018, 04:49:54 AM »
Why not? It is messed up, so was that plot point in Star Wars. They never had any kid either - so despite that it is incest it causes no physical trouble. And even though the grew up together from 10 to 16, and even though it might be understandable they had sex (as they were both hormonal teens), it is still weird as even if they wern't blood relatives as they were closer to being brother and sister than just regular friends. I mean they shared the same bedroom, lived in the same house, lived as brother and sister in a way. Being blood related isn't all that stops people having sex (unfortunately history is full of people screwing their relatives, not to mention there are cases of it happening all the time), despite the danger to children born of incest. It is less weird in many ways to start having sex with someone you know a lot less well than a family member. It is very weird grow up with someone in the same house and then start having sex with them, even if you didn't know they were blood you probably still shouldn't be doing it. Knowing that someone is your blood relative should not be the main reason not to sleep with them.

Why Faith Astor? That seems quite out of left field.

1296
DF Spoilers / Cowl and Kumori are...
« on: October 21, 2018, 01:09:32 AM »
Cowl is Justin and Elaine is Kumori. Time to drag out this old theory again.

Cowl:
1. Cowl has appeared in several books - first notable one is Death Masks at the Bianca's ball. He delivers a gift (possibly nemfected) to several guests, but only confirmed through Mab about the Leansidhe. Morgana's Athame is traded for Amoracchius (Excalibur).
2. In Dead Beat Cowl mentions many things of significance happened that night, Dresden is only aware of a few of them. Cowl likely conspired with Mavra and Bianca and her progenitor (Ortega), who's wife Ariana was part of the group that Margaret Le Fey, the White King, and possibly Justin Dumorne were all a part of. A group that might have decided it was time for the White Council to end.
3. A shadowy figure sponsors and is seen in White Knight. Harry seems to recognise his magic as Cowl's. In this book, the Circle is mentioned for the first time.
4. Cowl is an expert at Evocation, Neuromancy, Veils, Ways and Necromancy. He also mentions his skill at swordplay. Why would Cowl have a sword? Most wizards do not carry them. But an ex-Warden would. All his magical skills and talents would make him an excellent warden (excluding the fact he can't use Necromancy).
5. Justin is likely a skilled Nueromancer - he enthralls Elaine before Harry gets to the confrontation.
6. Justin was in the assault on Kemmler. Cowl says he despised the "mad man" Kemmler, despite being his student. He may well have taken the opportunity to erase his enemy for his own ends.
7. Justin was Simon's apprentice. It is stated in Summer Knight that Simon's fortress was impregnable, and the Warden's forensics suggest that someone let them in past the defences. Eb says it would still have required someone who knew the place inside out. Justin is only discounted on being dead, but otherwise as a rogue Warden and Warlock would have been a candidate, who the Council suspect passed on the knowledge to Harry. Now we know that it wasn't Harry - so it doesn't leave much leeway.
9. Simon is said to have been found dead, along with the brute squad. Whilst it doesn't explicitly state his body was found, it would be a hell of a thing for them not to notice his missing corpse. A whole plot point in the series is built around how intolerable it would be to have a high-level wizard turned to the enemy. A missing Senior Council member might have provoked a stronger reaction.
10. We only have Harry's word that Justin died, and that he fought Justin in earnest. Most people thought is unlikely he beat Justin. Fires in stories tend to be useful covers for other events, a physical symbol of chaos.
11. Jim says Justin is dead. D-E-D dead. He has also said not to trust a word he says. JB has also described death as "a squishy line in the Dresdenverse"
12. Many characters, including Mab, have said Death is a spectrum.
13. Harry believed Elaine was dead. Harry was wrong. If he was wrong about her...
14. From a writing perspective, consider Star Wars (one of Jim's favourite stories). Luke is raised an orphan by others, his lovely aunt and uncle. He then goes on an apprenticeship with a wise old mentor. He is told his father was a Jedi, who his most feared enemy killed. Vader reveals he is Lukes father, which Luke is in denial about but realises must be true. Obi-wan does the fae-speak of half truths (When your father became Vader, he killed Anakin Skywalker). The trope of Harry thinking his foster father and first mentor is dead, who actually isn't would be a good technique and mess with Dresden's psychology majorly.
15. Cowl hides his face, the other Necromancer's do not. Harry suspects White Council. He might be right, but likely that is not the only reason. They even distort their voices. Vader hides his face too - and was a jedi once. Luke just did not know it.
16. Cowl wishes to end Death. Why? The Outsiders might want that, perhaps it would limit the power of TWG. But why would Cowl? Kumori seems to believe him. I suspect it is because he is traumatized by the Death of someone he loved.
17. Justin and Cowl both have links to HWWBH.
18. If Justin is dead, why no Death Curse?

Kumori:
1. Kumori is tall enough to hold a knife to Harry's neck - Harry is 6'9" roughly so not an easy feat.
2. Elaine is described as being tall, tall enough she only has to stretch a little to kiss him on the cheek.
3. Elaine is described as being a better at magic than Harry, while Harry is brawnier. She is skillful enough she is not worried about people seeing through her veils. 
4. Kumori seems to use less brawn and more subtler magic than Cowl; less of a duelist but still deadly.
5. Kumori is a distinctly japanese name.
6. Elaine uses japanese as her magic words.
7. Kumori shows compassion - she resurrects a dead gunman of Marcone's for apparently no other reason than because she thinks she should.
8. Elaine has shown much compassion for her fellows, whilst still distrusting the institution of the White Council.
9. Elaine was the Emmisary of Summer/Harry's opposite. She says she was part of the Summer Court for a long time. Summer has been involved unusually in the books. Mostly ambivalent or directly in contest with Dresden. Rarely against the foes of Dresden.
10. Kumori and Elaine show compassion for Dresden, but not so much that it impedes their goals.

Bit of a wild theory here. I believe Justin was in love with Maggie. They had a relationship and they both felt the White Council was too harsh and too rigid. Maggie and Justin had two children - Elaine and Harry (perhaps twins?). Elaine is older than Harry - he is always referred to as Margaret's youngest. When Maggie was killed by the White Court - Justin was furious. But he could not yet move against them. He finally gets his children back when Malcolm died. He raises them to be his disciples and enforces but it goes wrong and he either dies and is revived or fakes his own death. He finally gets his revenge by "accidentally" murdering half the White Court when his uber-ghouls start murdering everyone. He definitely would want to end Death as he is still grieving Maggie.

From a writing perspective (and fitting nicely with the Star Wars inspiration) - it would be a major shock to discover not only is Justin alive, but he is Cowl and been orchestrating all the terrible stuff in Dresden's life. It would also majorly freak Dresden out is he realised Elaine was his sister, something Justin would have definitely encouraged (like a good cult leader). It also matches the weird Luke-Leia thing. Finally, you might argue Dresden should have recognised Justin's magic. I think he sort of did without realising it. Cowl's magic is human, with a bit of Dark Magic in it - unlike the Mavra or even the Corpsetaker. Harry recognises so is his, which makes sense when you realise he was taught all the basics by Justin/Cowl. I also believe Justin will likely kill Ebenezar while he tries to protect Harry. Very common trope. Harry might find it very hard to be good when he realises his whole life is a lie, he was born to be a weapon, he commited incest (potentially) and that his mother was in on it for a long time. Harry is given power over Outsiders. Yes he uses this as a weapon - but perhaps the real purpose is to be a leader (very Hellboy in my mind).

Anyway, have at it. Let's debate this all again!

1297
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's name: NMWYG, TYA
« on: October 19, 2018, 10:48:32 PM »
Interesting idea. I agree that the is significance in the phrase - hell of a clue bat if an Archangel says that to you. Considering how he uses words in general. Not sure if I totally agree with your theory, but I like the idea that it is related to time travel.

Anyway, good to have you back my man!

1298
DF Spoilers / Re: The Dresden Codex - Links to Mayan Mythology and the DF
« on: October 17, 2018, 02:49:57 AM »
Very true - they all fit the bill to a degree. However the issues I found when examining them as candidates is that Molly and Murphy are love interests (not great if you are a twin...) and Thomas is his brother but not actual twin (which would make more sense if he was the archetype, and he is male and the twin dichotomy for the theory is male/female). I certainly understand where you are coming from, but the way I see it coming about is thus:

Harry and Elaine are both starborn (twins not necessarily in blood, but in conjunctions, perhaps even on polar opposite conjunctions). They are raised and trained by Dumorne, then the falling out happens and Harry leaves after appearing to kill Justin and Elaine. However, Elaine returns and my guess is Justin survived too - how else did Elaine survive? She was enthralled at the time and Justin was the most powerful Wizard in the room at that time. I suspect he is Cowl and Elaine is Kumori, and that in the end she will betray Justin and stand with Harry against the Old Ones in the BAT.

1299
DF Spoilers / The Dresden Codex - Links to Mayan Mythology and the DF
« on: October 11, 2018, 03:00:41 AM »
While rereading Changes for the millionth time, I was researching Mayan mythology and came across an artifact, rediscovered in Dresden (Germany). It is the oldest surviving book from the Americas dating back to the 13th or 14th Century.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_Codex read about it's history here. Of note, it links to a 260 year cycle of the Maya Calendar and the 365 days in a year.  Interesting then that Harry Dresden ends up in the Yucatan with a bunch of expired and/or impersonating Mayan deities.

MY THEORY
The Lords of the Outer Night
I believe that the Red Court is strongly linked to the finale of the series. We know they have links to the Outsiders, and the Lords of the Outer Night (an interesting concept; Outer Night could mean the night beyond the stars, as in the Universe or more likely beyond the Universe - the Netherworld of the Outsiders) surely are directly linked.

The Mayan underworld Xibalba roughly translates to "place of fear" and is ruled by the Mayan Death Gods. Normally it is accessed through a cave, and in some Maya areas the Milky Way is viewed as the road to Xibalba. Xibalba is described as a court below the earth.

There are twelve LoON and the are twelve gods of Xibalba. Two are considered above the others, the strongest is Hun-Came (One Death) and then Vucab-Came (Seven Death). The others are considered demons and rule over aspects of human suffering - causing sickness, starvation, fear, destitution, pain and death. They all work in pairs: Xiquiripat ("Flying Scab") and Cuchumaquic ("Gathered Blood"), who sicken people's blood; Ahalpuh ("Pus Demon") and Ahalgana ("Jaundice Demon"), who cause people's bodies to swell up; Chamiabac ("Bone Staff") and Chamiaholom ("Skull Staff"), who turn dead bodies into skeletons; Ahalmez ("Sweepings Demon") and Ahaltocob ("Stabbing Demon"), who hide in the unswept areas of people's houses and stab them to death; and Xic ("Wing") and Patan ("Packstrap"), who cause people to die coughing up blood while out walking on a road.

So how does Kukulkan fit in? He doesn't quite. Perhaps like the myths, he was a boy born a monster and passed on what he was to those around him. But I don't think so. He is more like Camazotz - the Bat Monster God in form, and more like Gukumatz/Q'uq'umatz in role (as creator god).
BUT, there is another significant group of Mayan gods. The thirteen creator gods who helped create humanity. Not much is known about them other than there names and that they tried to create humanity three times, first from mud and water, then from wood and finally from maize.

It is difficult to reconcile these different groups. JB likely has pieces of information that help link the two - I have a rather grand theory that I will outline in another thread that should help explain that. Possibly he also didn't do a lot of research when naming and designing the Red Court. I find this unlikely, but it remains a possibility given the inconsistencies of the story to real-world mythology. For example, Kukulcan is rarely considered the ruler of the Mayan deities. The most obvious reason that JB chose him is that at Chichen Itza the main temple is El Castillo which is a temple to Kukulkan. This would help place the battle in an exciting location, but makes sense in terms of why the Red Court used the location rather than another.

The Hero Twins
Another interesting connection is the Maya Hero Twins, Hunahpu and Xblanque. They are the oldest Maya myth to be preserved from the text Popol Voh. The Twins are often portrayed as complimentary forces (e.g. life and death, sky and earth, day and night, sun and moon AND INTERESTINGLY male and female). The twins often challenge gods and had a shitty upbringing. They are also talented and use their wits to overcome great foes. They also bring down the Lords of Xibalba. I suspect they are a loose basis for the Starborn in Jim's writing. You might argue that only Harry was there - but I think not. I think Elaine was there, I believe she is one of the members of the Grey Council despite whatever her other allegiances are.

I have more that I might add at another time - but for now I will say that while I acknowledge this theory is incomplete and loosely fits the "facts", I believe that Jim has certainly done his homework here.

1300
DF Spoilers / Re: Ancient Mai's Statue Temple Foo Dogs
« on: September 18, 2018, 03:31:25 AM »
Good boy!

1301
DF Spoilers / Re: Formorians and Outsiders
« on: September 18, 2018, 03:30:08 AM »
and where is #8 proven at in canon... or anywhere else? Never have a seen that even hinted at that I recall..

Con is correct - see the Even Hand story. But is makes sense too; they like to mishmash body parts.

1302
DF Spoilers / The Death of Margaret Le Fay
« on: September 16, 2018, 09:52:29 PM »
Margaret le Fay died due to the powerful malacchio curse, like the Barabass curse, that causes horrible deadly misfortune on the recipient. This spell was done by the White King Lord Raith, possibly with the help of a cult of practitioners and potentially even He Who Walks Behind.

However, malacchio can mean "evil eye". Who has an evil eye in mythology? Well one interesting individual does: King Balor of the Fomor. Known for his singular eye that killed all it looked upon, he was a ruthless tyrant and terrifying opponent. But what if it was not his eye, or even his physical eye, but the eye was a power he was given through his daemonic (Outsider) heritage from HWWB? This could make a lot of things very personal for Dresden.

1303
DF Spoilers / Re: Formorians and Outsiders
« on: September 16, 2018, 09:35:11 PM »
Indeed, specifically Outsiders are in-text referred to as coming from the the Nether World. There is definitely a big link. Jim will of course have his own spin...but even in Hellboy there are links between, and in Warcraft, and D&D between the Celtic/Norse/Greek/Faerie/Elves and Demon. And JB uses all those, plus regular mythology and a few other fictional works.

It is just we know so little about them in-world.

Fact 1: They were related to the Fae and the Jotuns. The married, fought and were eventually driven back to the sea.
Fact 2: The currently are a nation of outcasts, not just the original Formor, but dark gods and spirits united together.
Fact 3: The Cantrev Lords look like frogs and have powerful, water based magics. (This further shows Harry's understanding of Magic is seriously limited).
Fact 4: Their servitors (turtlenecks) steal magical talents for an unknown purpose. They use both modern and ancient and arcane technology. They are sort of like magical cyborgs (but instead of machine parts, they have weird animal and monster parts).
Fact 5: The Red Court was somewhat keeping them at bay, or at least less active. When the Red Court fell, the Formor quickly and fiercely took its place.
Fact 6: One of their Cantrev Lords is Lord Omogh (who I can find not much info on), and another is Mags who was defeated by Marcone.
Fact 7: Their leader appears to be King Corb, who's court is located in Lake Michigan (I mean come on JB, change it up a little, we get you like Chicago but not everything of significance has to be there, there is an entire PLANET outside of America, let alone Chicago).
Fact 8: They created the beasts used by the Denarians, the hybrid monsters. This suggests dealings between the two groups.
Fact 9: The have had dealings with the Corpsetaker...and Evil Bob. This suggests a link to the Disciples of Kemmler and perhaps even the Black Council/Circle.

1304
DF Spoilers / Re: Who are the members of the Grey Council?
« on: September 16, 2018, 09:06:07 PM »
Yeah but Jim said that anyone on the Council would mop the floor with Harry.  Langtry also appears to be very good at mind magic...  I think he'd have assaulted Harry's mind to test him rather using kinetic force.

I specifically believe he was referring to Senior Council at that time. Of the thousand plus wizard in sheer might, even before he became the Winter Knight, Harry always saw himself in the top 30-40 strongest. Which is not to say most capable fighters or most powerful wizards. Even though I suspect he has had a pretty meteoric rise in combat ability over the series. Jim has even gone back and said not every wizard, not even most wizards are suited to combat. That was why there was only 200 wardens in a thousand plus group. And of the senior council only Simon (dead), Eb (who replaced him, and is also the Blackstaff and was captain of the wardens), Langtry (the Merlin), Rashid (the Gatekeeper), Listens-to-Wind and Cristos are fighters and skilled in Evocation. Martha Liberty, Aleron Lafortier (dead), Ancient Mai are all considered to have talents that do not lend themselves to direct combat. Though I acknowledge Liberty is an unknown quantity here, all we really know is she is good at veils.

1305
DF Spoilers / Re: The Horned God, the Triple Goddess and the Pentagram
« on: September 16, 2018, 08:53:59 PM »
I also believe Harry is weaker than the Ladies, and Mab vs Odin seems tilted against Odin (nevermind the Erlking vs Mab, which is even more lopsided). And the Gatekeeper is a very old Wizard.

Very true but my point is that he doesn't likely outrank Odin in power, (who himself is several millennia old.

Sibelis, it has always seemed the Gatekeeper is more dangerous not because he has tons of magical might, but because he (like a true JB wizard) has knowledge and ability to affect enemies most vulnerable elements. Which is not to say he isn't a bad ass wizard, but if Harry or Eb is like a hammer, Rashid is like a scalpel.

We're limited in what we know about the Gatekeeper.  But JB has teased that he might have thrown down with Demonreach and by inference the last warden.  Drag, thump.

Sorry Morris, believe that one has been debunked by the man JB himself. He said what caused the limp was the last friggin ice age, which one could interpret as the island being physically limited (like being cut off from the ocean perhaps). Check out Serack's WOJ page under demonreach - pretty sure it has the direct quote. 

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