If Harry dies, it will be at the end I hope surrounded by his children and grandchildren.  I don't want to see Harry made into some kind of immortal of any stripe.  He does deserve peace, and after it is over, if he is surrounded by friends and family, he will have it.

I more meant Heaven - which while we don't know for a fact exists in the Dresden Files (Uriel was exceptionally tight lipped on the subject) - I think it is heavily implied to exist. Uriel wasn't so sure Harry would end up there either, when Harry last flirted with death. I wonder where Harry is on the scale now.

It doesn't make him a libertarian, it just makes him an ordinary human who wishes to have the freedom to mostly live his life as he sees fit.  That's no different from the rest of us, and most of us understand there are still laws we all have to abide by or there would be anarchy.  Harry understands that also.

Not all people in the world do actually hold that as a central idea. Many places do not have the luxury of the kind of freedom we enjoy. Some places and societies even believe that they prefer a lessening of one's personal freedoms for the "greater good" of their society. I am sure you can work out which places those are. But even in countries like the US, not everyone holds liberty as highly as others. Hence all the politics. But Harry does hold liberty highly, higher than most. He might not be Ron Swanson (if you have ever seen Parks and Rec) and not believe in no government etc but I would say he is less likely to allow himself to be governed than ever before. I will concede that he seems to have more respect for mortal governments than supernatural ones...which is highly interesting.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that except maybe some of the old fossilized wizards, however having said that I don't think for the most part that the White Council is corrupt so much as it needs to be reformed and updated to fit better into the 21st  Century.

I mean, it's hard to say. Depending on your definition of corruption - is it simply corrupted by its own political power, or has black magic corrupted their purpose etc. At one point, Harry thought that the White Council was so corrupt and infiltrated by the theoretical Black Council, that he needed to help create a Grey Council (whatever happened to them, by the way, haven't heard a peep from them in 5 books). Ebenezar constantly would chastise Harry for suggesting there should be no White Council, even suggested that it might be worth Harry's life for suggesting such a thing in days gone by. I think the question becomes does Harry think the current White Council is too corrupt to exist?

However that isn't an isolation of choice on Harry's part.. That kind of isolation isn't the same as choosing to be a loner.

Oooh, I am not sure I agree with that. One of the clearest parts of the series is about how much individual choices matter. Harry has chosen his path, no one walked it for him. The consequences of it are on him. Earlier in the series he chose to be a loner, but these days it's worse than that. He made deals with vampires and faeries and other monsters, he pushed against the White Council's restrictions and even got himself in political fights with them, he has lied and pushed away many of his former allies in order to "save" them but also to protect himself, and he has done a LOT of questionable stuff that without context doesn't look great from the outside (and even with context some of which still is pretty questionable). Most of all, he has gathered a hell of a lot of personal and political power in a very short amount of time. That's the sort of thing that scares people. It's not for nothing that Mab loves Harry's rise to power.

Again, I disagree, Harry has reason to distrust authority, but that isn't the same as having a disdain for authority.  His clashes with authority in most of the books is about what the rules should be and living by those rules, not about disregarding the rules.

 
Are you sure about that? His disdain for the White Council is fairly evident. He refused to attend regular Council meetings, barely visits HQ in Edinburgh (to the point that only Rashid, the most mysterious wizard, visited less), refused for the longest time to learn proper Latin or wear a formal robe (he literally wore a dirty bath robe - if that isn't disrespectful I don't know what is), argued publicly with the Merlin and actually beat him politically, refused for the longest time to be a Warden (openly hated them until he was forced to be one), and after "dying" ended up with a powerful new role in a shady group (the Winter Court) and refused to tell the White Council what was going on until Rashid did it for him.

Look at it this way - if he were a rogue soldier in the army, who often wouldn't follow orders, refused to learn proper army lingo, argued with superiors openly and disrespected the Commander-in-Chief openly by arguing with him, wore a dirty uniform openly, and wouldn't take on higher duties when heavy losses by a war he started needed him to, and then is supposedly KIA and doesn't bother to tell his bosses what happened and where he is - all they hear is that he actually is alive and involved in major combats outside their control and he actually might be playing for another (and very shady) organization (like a mercenary group for example, or even another sovereign entity). Plenty of that would get him discharged, if not court marshalled. He might even get executed.

But really, who is Harry to decide what the rules of the White Council (or any form of government) should be? What has he done in his life to show that he should be trusted with good governance and is an expert on such things? I don't think you want the human wrecking ball deciding on public policy.

Well, that is a technique as old as when mankind first began to organize into groups.  In this case it isn't Harry doing the isolation, the White Council is it's own worst enemy.  The enemy plays upon the White Council's own fossilized view of the world, not much Harry can do about that.  He has clashed with the White Council at Molly's trial, and Rashid has foretold that he will clash with them again... However that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing if he does.

As above, I think Harry has done plenty to isolate himself. That's what Ebenezar was warning him about. Yes, the White Council is its own worst enemy. Yes, Harry has been pushed and manipulated and yes, their were plenty of extenuating circumstances to the things Harry has done. But. Harry's distrust and fear of the White Council and some of his own allies has kept them in the dark, and that is why they don't know why he is doing what he is doing. He might even be right to keep them in the dark - but that's the choice he made, and the consequences are on him.

I believe Rashid wasn't predicting Harry's future arguments with the White Council. He was predicting a civil war, in my opinion. Considering that if Harry defeats the Council, Cowl and his allies get what they want - no more White Council (something they have been trying to achieve since before the series started), I don't know if that would be such a good thing.

Like many civil wars, these things start based on ideology and progress into an increasingly violent and unforgivable tit-for-tat.

For example, let's say hypothetically Harry does something like use magic in a way the Council don't like. Warden's show up to arrest him. Harry resists arrest, maybe hurts or kills a Warden. The White Council treat him as an active threat and ask Ebenezar to kill him. Maybe Ebenezar tries and fails, Harry retaliates and brings his allies into it. Or maybe Eb sides with Harry and factions emerge and full-scale war breaks out. In the end, there is no White Council and Harry emerges the victor. Cowl is victorious.

Except I cannot see Harry doing that, nor does the series point to that happening in my opinion.  Harry is too logical a being, that's part of his makeup as a good private detective.

Well, the Black Council has made Harry look as bad as possible (not that they needed to do all that much). They certainly have managed to turn his allies against him - he is literally off the White Council due to their interference. They have been targeting his friends and family for years - they took took Susan (which ended up killing her), they took Molly (which ended up with her as Winter Queen), they took Maggie (which she survived but is traumatised by), they killed many of his friends and possibly his parents (strongly hinted at), they manipulated his brother and stole Thomas' partner and baby (which resulted in Thomas being sentenced to death and Harry having to fight the White Council for him AND having to lock Thomas up himself in the most awful prison in the world), and they killed the woman he loves, Murphy.

Each time, Harry has been pushed to act more impulsively by these moments. Each time, he has been driven further away from the White Council and "good" allies. The Black Council have been manipulating Harry for years. Even before he was born, that's implied too. Harry has even realised that he might have been pushed for a very long time. He talks about it with Lea.

Harry is highly logical at times, but he is also incredibly emotional. Look at what he has done when emotional. He even knows and admits how little he is in control during those moments. Even so, logic alone won't be enough to stop him being manipulated. It's too late - he already has been manipulated. He is already outside the Council and prepared to fight them. It's a power keg scenario. Do you really think Harry Dresden, paragon of self-control, will hold back when the White Council does something harsh and unfair like try and arrest him for trumped up charges or perhaps attack those he loves? What if they arrest or kill friends of his? What if they took Maggie away? Harry would burn them to the ground. He's done it before. He's way stronger now, far more dangerous.

I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.

Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".

I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and given this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.

Harry may well form another White Council after the inevitable collapse of the current one. But if the White Council collapses around the various apocalypses, is there even much point?

Not only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.

Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.

This topic has been moved to DF Fan Creations.

https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=54966.0

While Jim said Nemesis is a shapeshifter, that would be a surprise given how the mechanism apparently seems to work.

To me, I think it's more likely he was talking in a literary sense. Rather than the magical ability that Nemesis has. The literary figure that is Nemesis in Jim's book uses the literary device of "shapeshifting" i.e. a character that can impersonate other characters. Sherlock Holmes did this from time to time, but we know he was not a magical character. Obviously this is more confusing because in Jim's story world, we have a magic system that is both real and everpresent. The other problem is that the "shapeshifter bad guy" archetype is already taken in the series (ad yes, you can have more but to what end?) Naagloshii have clearly already done that well enough in the series, so what does Nemesis add that they do not?

So I think it's more likely that Nemesis "infects" or possesses other beings. He has described it this way both in books and interviews, and this is the first time he has said or hinted at anything else. Given that he also said Nemesis has a limit to how many it can infect at any given time, this makes more sense from a possession/corruption angle than anything else.

That said, if Nemesis is a shapeshifter like the Naagloshii that would raise all sorts of questions. What happens to the original being after Nemesis replaces them? Are they dead? If so, what is Lea doing and how is she "back"? Mab seemed quite confident she had "cured" Lea, after all. And why does Nemesis need to shape into them when possessing them would be more effective and more flexible? What advantage does this Walker gain from such an ability? And can it "shapeshift" into multiple beings at once? We know it can "infect" multiple beings at once...so does it create multiple bodies from ectoplasm? And wouldn't these bodies be less effective and more noticeable (given bodies made of ectoplasm can't cross thresholds etc) which Nemesis seems to have less problem doing etc.

My current theory is the Mab is Morganna, and that part of the reason Lea took Morganna's Athame was not just the power that it held, but the insult to Mab personally it represented by her holding it.

Also, Merlin isn't BP. Jim confirmed Merlin wouldn't be speaking modern day English. Further more, Corb and Mab seem to confirm that Merlin is dead in Battle Ground (when Corb specifically says "If he were among the living"...seems to imply that Merlin is no longer alive.

Of course, we know there are many levels to existence...and even the space between "alive" and "dead" is considered grey and a spectrum by Mab, not a black line.

Rereading it again it’s actually unclear but I took it that it was a wizard. Page 395, US Hardback.

Harry is talking to Ebenezer.

“Fuego!” Shouted someone from the walls - and for a second I was hit with a little sting of insult. Someone was shouting “fuego” and it wasn’t me.

It’s such a random statement in that chaos to be random, right?

It is vague, true. But the walls are where the Red Court were. The Grey Council were in the ball court.

from the walls? Wouldn't that imply it was indeed someone telling the mortal gunmen to fire?
Though of course the ultimate troll move to him saying that would be, it was actually future/alt Harry all along.

I always assumed it was someone else using fire magic, but telling the mortal gunmen makes more sense. Always something to learn!

I have seen this theory around for a few years, I myself have thought about it myself (whether that was inspired subconsciously by someone else's theory or not I cannot be certain). I don't think I ever wrote any of my thoughts down about it.

Obviously the easy links are those Jim has hinted at for a number of years. Harry has many obvious (and some less obvious) connections and parallels to both the Dresdenverse OG Merlin, and the literary figure.

Jim has both said in multiple interviews and AMAs and Q&As, as well as once or twice in the books, that Marcone would have made a good feudal lord or king. Which seems true enough I suppose, given how effectively Marcone rules his territory.

But I think it's important to examine the differences too.

Marcone is primarily a lawful evil character. He works within his rules, but he commits many morally evil acts. This would rule him out (at least for the time being) from being a "good" king, and Arthur is supposed to be the Western ideal of a "good king". Arthur of course makes many mistakes during his tenure, but ultimately is a lawful good character.

Furthermore, Marcone is a Denarian now, which while not ruling him out forever from holding a Sword of the Cross, it does rule him out for as long as he holds that Coin AND doesn't repent and attempt to atone, just like Sanya is doing. Arthur famously held Excalibur, and we of course know (as of Ghost Story) that Amoracchius (Michael Carpenter's Sword) is also Excalibur by a different name. So Marcone doesn't seem like the right option right now.

I feel Marcone is closer to Vortigern, if anything.