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DF Spoilers / Dresden Files animation
« on: April 16, 2023, 01:00:26 AM »
I've said it before, but thought I would bring it up again, a Dresden Files animated series would be great.
I know there is a live-action tv show in the works (although I think it might be in developmental hell currently). But an animated series can show more destruction, do crazier visual things, and doesn't have to worry about cast members aging too much. Really helps with the immortal and semi-immortal beings etc.
I also see it as a great way to re-launch interest in the series which could help the tv show etc.
I am thinking the two main studios I would want to see work on it are Powerhouse Studios (did Blood of Zeus in combination with two korean studios, and did the Castlevania tv series - both are on Netflix - also the opening title for Avatar: the Last Airbender), and Titmouse, Inc. (did the Legend of Vox Machina series).
Just google the artwork style and/or look at some scenes on youtube if you don't want to watch the full series.
Would you guys be interested in watching an animated series of the Dresden Files?
I know there is a live-action tv show in the works (although I think it might be in developmental hell currently). But an animated series can show more destruction, do crazier visual things, and doesn't have to worry about cast members aging too much. Really helps with the immortal and semi-immortal beings etc.
I also see it as a great way to re-launch interest in the series which could help the tv show etc.
I am thinking the two main studios I would want to see work on it are Powerhouse Studios (did Blood of Zeus in combination with two korean studios, and did the Castlevania tv series - both are on Netflix - also the opening title for Avatar: the Last Airbender), and Titmouse, Inc. (did the Legend of Vox Machina series).
Just google the artwork style and/or look at some scenes on youtube if you don't want to watch the full series.
Would you guys be interested in watching an animated series of the Dresden Files?
3
DF Spoilers / The Darkhallow
« on: April 02, 2023, 01:18:22 AM »
I think the Darkhallow has been overlooked in the series for the significance of it's event, it's design, it's intended purpose and potential.
Upon re-reading Dead Beat for the hundreth time, it really struck me the power of the Darkhallow.
From the exchange with Queen Mab:
So we learn what the Darkhallow is - a ritual of ascension. And yet, also not. Harry says it's more a spell than a rite - the difference I seem to remember is where the power comes from. The destruction and consuming of spirits by the performer imbues them with the power of a "junior-league" god, as Dresden says. Mab says that kind of power hasn't been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of the human race. At face value, that could be 10-100 thousand years. But I think Dresden only later realises that he might have underestimated how much power was in play.
So I think we can see it dawns on Harry that should Cowl succeed here, the world will change. There will be a new order to things, and Cowl, or rather the thing that Cowl would have become, would be in charge.
Even Corpsetaker said something about granting Harry autonomy and a principality of his choice, effectively making Harry a lord or king under him. Probably of a good portion of the USA, maybe all of it.
That's the kind of world-shaping power in play.
What's curious is what the other supernatural nations would have done. We know that Cowl (or whoever had succeeded, but probably Cowl) would have wiped out the Senior Council and effectively destroyed the White Council while the Red Court would have cleaned up the dregs. Without the White Council, humanity would have been less protected and more open and brazen attacks would have occurred. The smaller Accords nations certainly would have gone to ground, or served or been wiped out. Vadderung and Ferrovax likely would have retreated unless forced to fight, and I suspect they might have waited for a more certain victory. The Vamps and others likely would have served (or at least allied) with this new entity, which we must assume is much stronger than the Lords of the Outer Night (Red King inclusive), and Drakul etc. The Jade Court would just have waited things out I imagine, given that's all they apparently do...I also can't see the Faeries just lying down. But they might have stayed back. This being would have been beyond Mab and Titania, per WOJ. Probably not beyond the Mothers but it's hard to say how close. But the Mother's don't do direct fights like that - although curiously given the conversation with Kumori (and the theory that one of Mother Winter's aspects is that of Death), one might assume Cowl (as a god) would have attempted to kill Mother Winter in order to "end death" as Kumori puts it. Can't imagine Mab would have take that lying down. Then again, Cowl seems to work with Outsiders so they might have given him the opening he would have needed.
We also know that Ethniu was ready to go with an army and her superweapon and nigh-invulnerability. We know that The Outsiders had a serious assault or two ready to go, led by He Who Walks Before. He Who Walks Beside also clearly has many interweaving goals, which the Darkhallow might be linked to. We know that Nicodemus had several plans on the go, some of which involved stealing high-value supernatural relics, and corrupting powerful people including the Archive. Not to mention Drakul clearly also has some similar operations to Nicodemus going on. My guess is Nicodemus, Drakul etc. would have gone to ground. Maybe paid their respects eventually whilst working away at their larger goals. I doubt they care who rules - I think their plans are larger and far worse than ruling the world.
Ethniu likely would have challenged any new Power. I have speculated before on who might win that and it's quite hard to judge. I can't see Cowl and Ethniu working together (unless they already had been...which is possible, if not likely). But would they have stayed allies? In theory Ethniu all armored up and with the Eye of Balor should be stronger. But the way it's worded in Dead Beat makes you think that Cowl would have been stronger. A dark god of necromancy, likely. Easily able to make his own army I think. I suspect he would have had the power to pierce through the armor, given the requirement to get through Titanic Bronze is either enough power, or power from the right place (infernal or celestial). I don't see how he would counter the Eye, but Cowl is very clever and might have planned for such a thing. More likely he would have avoided a straight fight if possible and tried to work with her to suppress the mortals.
Which then gives us the mortal issue. Would Cowl have been strong enough outright to dominate all mortal opposition? Armies of the dead might suggest that, in a zombie apocalypse type way. One only has to watch a few zombie movies or tv shows to see how quickly civilisation would crumble - although mostly infection seems more dangerous than merely being summoned. Not sure how humans would deal with spectres like the Corpsetaker summoned. But humans do have other organisations that protect them like the Librum Bellum - the MIB. One expects they wouldn't have just rolled over, and might even have strategies for just such an event. Not to mention, we have seen that Alfred can probably handle even very powerful entities if he's close enough (although he still needs the Warden to help bind them). And that's just one thing - who knows how many other such countermeasures exist.
Yet Dresden, and the Wardens, the Necromancers and even Fae all seemed very convinced that should a dark god emerge, that was it for civilisation. This suggests it would be a far worse event than most, a being perhaps far stronger than Ethniu. Which might mean such a creature might be a lot harder to stop. And maybe not such a junior-league god, as Dresden thinks.
One wonders how the Outsiders would have dealt with it too. My guess is that just like with Ethniu, Cowl succeeding at the Darkhallow was merely an opportunity for the Outsiders to exploit. Creating the right kind of conditions for their version of the apocalypse. In the end, I think the Outsiders are ultimately the biggest threat to everything given they torture and destroy and consume universes, and want to do that to the entire multiverse of Creation. Or so it seems.
But it was still a really big event, should it have occcured. And I highly doubt that Cowl won't attempt another Darkhallow (although one thinks he might want to pick another city, just logically). Even the name Darkhallow (Dark-holy) gives you an idea of how big an event it was. Something curious we have seen (only briefly) is the power of holiness, or unholiness as the case may be. The Sleeper managed to consecrate the ground of it's Church. Normally, this is reserved for the White God and other major religions (I assume). Presumably, each of the varying religions in their era had this power too (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Sumerian, Chinese, Irish, etc) but due to current circumstances do not have this power any more. Would Cowl have had this power? Could he have consecrated his own special areas?
Food for thought.
In any case, do you think we will see another Darkhallow attempt? By Cowl or some other? Even Kemmler (should he somehow return, assuming he hasn't already)? If it occurs again, would the BAT kick off?
Upon re-reading Dead Beat for the hundreth time, it really struck me the power of the Darkhallow.
From the exchange with Queen Mab:
Quote
Know this, mortal: Should Kemmler's heirs acquire the knowledge bound within the Word, they will be in a position to gather up such power as the world has not seen in many thousands of years."
"What? How?"
"Kemmler was"—Mab's eyes grew distant, as if in memory— "a madman. A monster. But brilliant. He learned how to bind to his will not only dead flesh, but shades—to rend them asunder and devour them to feed his own power. It was the secret of the strength that allowed him to defy all the White Council together."
I added two and two and got four. "The heirs want to call up the ancient spirits," I breathed. "And then devour them for power."
Mab's deep-green eyes almost seemed to glow with intensity. "Kemmler himself attempted it, but the Council struck him down before he could finish."
I swallowed. "What happens if one of his heirs is able to do it?"
"The heir would gain power such as has not been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of your race," Mab said.
"The Darkhallow," I said. I rubbed at my eyes. "That's what it is. A ritual, tomorrow night. Halloween. They all want to be the one to make themselves into a junior-league god."
So we learn what the Darkhallow is - a ritual of ascension. And yet, also not. Harry says it's more a spell than a rite - the difference I seem to remember is where the power comes from. The destruction and consuming of spirits by the performer imbues them with the power of a "junior-league" god, as Dresden says. Mab says that kind of power hasn't been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of the human race. At face value, that could be 10-100 thousand years. But I think Dresden only later realises that he might have underestimated how much power was in play.
Quote
Cowl kept on chanting, and I saw his body arch with tension. Over the next minute or so, he actually, physically rose above the ground, until his boots were three or four inches in the air. His voice had become part of the wild storm, part of the dark energy, and it rolled and boomed and echoed all around us. I began to understand the kind of power we were dealing with. It was power as deep as an ocean, and as broad as the sky. It was dark and lethal and horrible and beautiful, and Cowl was about to take it all in. The strength it would give him would not make him a match for the entire White Council. It would put him in a league so far beyond them that their strength would mean virtually nothing.
It was power enough to change the world. To reshape it after one's own liking.
So I think we can see it dawns on Harry that should Cowl succeed here, the world will change. There will be a new order to things, and Cowl, or rather the thing that Cowl would have become, would be in charge.
Even Corpsetaker said something about granting Harry autonomy and a principality of his choice, effectively making Harry a lord or king under him. Probably of a good portion of the USA, maybe all of it.
That's the kind of world-shaping power in play.
What's curious is what the other supernatural nations would have done. We know that Cowl (or whoever had succeeded, but probably Cowl) would have wiped out the Senior Council and effectively destroyed the White Council while the Red Court would have cleaned up the dregs. Without the White Council, humanity would have been less protected and more open and brazen attacks would have occurred. The smaller Accords nations certainly would have gone to ground, or served or been wiped out. Vadderung and Ferrovax likely would have retreated unless forced to fight, and I suspect they might have waited for a more certain victory. The Vamps and others likely would have served (or at least allied) with this new entity, which we must assume is much stronger than the Lords of the Outer Night (Red King inclusive), and Drakul etc. The Jade Court would just have waited things out I imagine, given that's all they apparently do...I also can't see the Faeries just lying down. But they might have stayed back. This being would have been beyond Mab and Titania, per WOJ. Probably not beyond the Mothers but it's hard to say how close. But the Mother's don't do direct fights like that - although curiously given the conversation with Kumori (and the theory that one of Mother Winter's aspects is that of Death), one might assume Cowl (as a god) would have attempted to kill Mother Winter in order to "end death" as Kumori puts it. Can't imagine Mab would have take that lying down. Then again, Cowl seems to work with Outsiders so they might have given him the opening he would have needed.
We also know that Ethniu was ready to go with an army and her superweapon and nigh-invulnerability. We know that The Outsiders had a serious assault or two ready to go, led by He Who Walks Before. He Who Walks Beside also clearly has many interweaving goals, which the Darkhallow might be linked to. We know that Nicodemus had several plans on the go, some of which involved stealing high-value supernatural relics, and corrupting powerful people including the Archive. Not to mention Drakul clearly also has some similar operations to Nicodemus going on. My guess is Nicodemus, Drakul etc. would have gone to ground. Maybe paid their respects eventually whilst working away at their larger goals. I doubt they care who rules - I think their plans are larger and far worse than ruling the world.
Ethniu likely would have challenged any new Power. I have speculated before on who might win that and it's quite hard to judge. I can't see Cowl and Ethniu working together (unless they already had been...which is possible, if not likely). But would they have stayed allies? In theory Ethniu all armored up and with the Eye of Balor should be stronger. But the way it's worded in Dead Beat makes you think that Cowl would have been stronger. A dark god of necromancy, likely. Easily able to make his own army I think. I suspect he would have had the power to pierce through the armor, given the requirement to get through Titanic Bronze is either enough power, or power from the right place (infernal or celestial). I don't see how he would counter the Eye, but Cowl is very clever and might have planned for such a thing. More likely he would have avoided a straight fight if possible and tried to work with her to suppress the mortals.
Which then gives us the mortal issue. Would Cowl have been strong enough outright to dominate all mortal opposition? Armies of the dead might suggest that, in a zombie apocalypse type way. One only has to watch a few zombie movies or tv shows to see how quickly civilisation would crumble - although mostly infection seems more dangerous than merely being summoned. Not sure how humans would deal with spectres like the Corpsetaker summoned. But humans do have other organisations that protect them like the Librum Bellum - the MIB. One expects they wouldn't have just rolled over, and might even have strategies for just such an event. Not to mention, we have seen that Alfred can probably handle even very powerful entities if he's close enough (although he still needs the Warden to help bind them). And that's just one thing - who knows how many other such countermeasures exist.
Yet Dresden, and the Wardens, the Necromancers and even Fae all seemed very convinced that should a dark god emerge, that was it for civilisation. This suggests it would be a far worse event than most, a being perhaps far stronger than Ethniu. Which might mean such a creature might be a lot harder to stop. And maybe not such a junior-league god, as Dresden thinks.
One wonders how the Outsiders would have dealt with it too. My guess is that just like with Ethniu, Cowl succeeding at the Darkhallow was merely an opportunity for the Outsiders to exploit. Creating the right kind of conditions for their version of the apocalypse. In the end, I think the Outsiders are ultimately the biggest threat to everything given they torture and destroy and consume universes, and want to do that to the entire multiverse of Creation. Or so it seems.
But it was still a really big event, should it have occcured. And I highly doubt that Cowl won't attempt another Darkhallow (although one thinks he might want to pick another city, just logically). Even the name Darkhallow (Dark-holy) gives you an idea of how big an event it was. Something curious we have seen (only briefly) is the power of holiness, or unholiness as the case may be. The Sleeper managed to consecrate the ground of it's Church. Normally, this is reserved for the White God and other major religions (I assume). Presumably, each of the varying religions in their era had this power too (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Sumerian, Chinese, Irish, etc) but due to current circumstances do not have this power any more. Would Cowl have had this power? Could he have consecrated his own special areas?
Food for thought.
In any case, do you think we will see another Darkhallow attempt? By Cowl or some other? Even Kemmler (should he somehow return, assuming he hasn't already)? If it occurs again, would the BAT kick off?
4
DF Spoilers / Are there Mormon influences in the Dresden Files?
« on: August 31, 2022, 10:42:43 PM »
Firstly, I would like to acknowledge I am not Mormon and while I know some Mormons I don't claim to be an expert. So if I get things wrong or misunderstand, please forgive me. For any Mormon's on who might read this, I would love your insight and your contributions if you are comfortable sharing them - but no one is obliged either. I don't seek to offend so I do hope that will be taken into account with this discussion, and I will do my best to be respectful, but if I cross any lines please let me know (even PM me if you prefer). I don't think I am veering into Touchy Topics as the context is the relationship with the Dresden Files series.
Now, on to the actual discourse.
Up until now I never really noticed any particular connections between the Mormon faith and the Dresden Files, until I learned about what the Mormon's call Hell - the Outer Darkness.
In the standard Mormon faith (not talking about offshoots) Hell is a place outside reality. The Outer Darkness. It is mentioned three times in the New Testament in the Gospel of Mathew.
Most of Christianity interpret this "outer darkness" as simply being separate from Christ, and to do with a wedding feast at the Second Coming.
However, the Mormons believe that essentially that it is Hell.
The obvious connections are the Lords of the Outer Dark/Night (a term I have only heard in the Dresden Files), who were the lords of the Red Court. The Outer Dark/Night has also been mentioned in Peace Talks in conjunction with the Cornerhounds (Hounds of Tindalos) - a type of Outsider.
So the Outer Darkness and Outside are likely synonymous.
The "gnashing of teeth" sounds a lot like the Outsiders who want to devour Creation and everything in it.
But here is where things get a bit stranger.
In the Mormon faith, a person who is good will not only ascend to Heaven but eventually will become like God themselves and have their own people to rule over. The idea is that even God in the Mormon faith was once a man on another world, who rose up and became what He is now. This also explains Jesus (and other prophets and messengers), and presumably, Saints. Saint just means holy person really, and yet we know they are so holy they are capable of great acts similar to other divine beings.
In the Dresden Files, we have learned that mortal's play a vital role in the growth of Creation as each choice they make spawns an alternate universe/timeline (Amberverse-style) leading to a nearly infinite number of universes. This is one of the main reasons that Free Will and Choice are so important. Mortal's are the only beings capable of this (by which I mean mortal's with souls). I suspect, and I think it's implied, that a soul is required for this. A soul is described by Jim as being made from the fundamental forces of Creation. This would give it tremendous power. Obviously, mortal's are highly constrained in that use and basically only can use it for spawning universes (which one could argue that you would need a significant power source to do such a thing). If mortals gather other power, they can take away their own choice (i.e. lose their soul). This is a big part of why their is a war for souls, given their value. Although I suspect that once a mortal "dies" and moves on, the soul becomes set like concrete. Hence the importance of the mortal world. You can change how the soul is before it "sets", if you like.
While I don't necessarily think that Butcher will have the Almighty of his Creation as previously being mortal (and I haven't seen any hints of that), I do think that mortal's in the Dresden Files are pre-divine (as their souls are already) and can metamorphose into their true divine form in the next world eventually (as Ghost Story clearly shows it takes time). If they become divine (i.e. do a rite of ascension and become a god) in the mortal world, they give up that ability to create new universes. A good example might be Harry's father, Malcolm Dresden who was not supernatural in the mortal world but might be now a lot more than a spirit just floating around.
I'll add more connections as I find them. Anyway, food for thought.
Again, I hope this doesn't offend anyone. My purpose is to discuss and perhaps to educate, a little.
Now, on to the actual discourse.
Up until now I never really noticed any particular connections between the Mormon faith and the Dresden Files, until I learned about what the Mormon's call Hell - the Outer Darkness.
In the standard Mormon faith (not talking about offshoots) Hell is a place outside reality. The Outer Darkness. It is mentioned three times in the New Testament in the Gospel of Mathew.
Quote
"Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matt. 22:13-14, D-R.)
Quote
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."(Matthew 25:30)- mentioned in the parable of the talents.
Most of Christianity interpret this "outer darkness" as simply being separate from Christ, and to do with a wedding feast at the Second Coming.
However, the Mormons believe that essentially that it is Hell.
The obvious connections are the Lords of the Outer Dark/Night (a term I have only heard in the Dresden Files), who were the lords of the Red Court. The Outer Dark/Night has also been mentioned in Peace Talks in conjunction with the Cornerhounds (Hounds of Tindalos) - a type of Outsider.
So the Outer Darkness and Outside are likely synonymous.
The "gnashing of teeth" sounds a lot like the Outsiders who want to devour Creation and everything in it.
But here is where things get a bit stranger.
In the Mormon faith, a person who is good will not only ascend to Heaven but eventually will become like God themselves and have their own people to rule over. The idea is that even God in the Mormon faith was once a man on another world, who rose up and became what He is now. This also explains Jesus (and other prophets and messengers), and presumably, Saints. Saint just means holy person really, and yet we know they are so holy they are capable of great acts similar to other divine beings.
In the Dresden Files, we have learned that mortal's play a vital role in the growth of Creation as each choice they make spawns an alternate universe/timeline (Amberverse-style) leading to a nearly infinite number of universes. This is one of the main reasons that Free Will and Choice are so important. Mortal's are the only beings capable of this (by which I mean mortal's with souls). I suspect, and I think it's implied, that a soul is required for this. A soul is described by Jim as being made from the fundamental forces of Creation. This would give it tremendous power. Obviously, mortal's are highly constrained in that use and basically only can use it for spawning universes (which one could argue that you would need a significant power source to do such a thing). If mortals gather other power, they can take away their own choice (i.e. lose their soul). This is a big part of why their is a war for souls, given their value. Although I suspect that once a mortal "dies" and moves on, the soul becomes set like concrete. Hence the importance of the mortal world. You can change how the soul is before it "sets", if you like.
While I don't necessarily think that Butcher will have the Almighty of his Creation as previously being mortal (and I haven't seen any hints of that), I do think that mortal's in the Dresden Files are pre-divine (as their souls are already) and can metamorphose into their true divine form in the next world eventually (as Ghost Story clearly shows it takes time). If they become divine (i.e. do a rite of ascension and become a god) in the mortal world, they give up that ability to create new universes. A good example might be Harry's father, Malcolm Dresden who was not supernatural in the mortal world but might be now a lot more than a spirit just floating around.
I'll add more connections as I find them. Anyway, food for thought.
Again, I hope this doesn't offend anyone. My purpose is to discuss and perhaps to educate, a little.
5
DF Spoilers / Is Harry going back to his roots a good thing?
« on: April 27, 2022, 01:49:25 AM »
I haven't made up my mind yet on this.
But it seems clear that Jim is returning Harry to some of his old roots.
Harry gets back his lab, his house, his pets, and now his PI life. All new and improved.
Sure, he's now also got two children, and lost two of his significant others, and his brother is imprisoned and dying/going insane, and lost the protection of the White Council/made active enemies of the White Council, and has far more enemies than before etc.
Does it all balance out? Should Harry try and get a semblance of his old life back? Is that really even possible? It it just regression? Does the story benefit from it? Does it make sense, given what has happened? Do we want more of the old Dresden, the old story lines and types, the original style?
I don't have the answers here but am curious to hear your thoughts.
But it seems clear that Jim is returning Harry to some of his old roots.
Harry gets back his lab, his house, his pets, and now his PI life. All new and improved.
Sure, he's now also got two children, and lost two of his significant others, and his brother is imprisoned and dying/going insane, and lost the protection of the White Council/made active enemies of the White Council, and has far more enemies than before etc.
Does it all balance out? Should Harry try and get a semblance of his old life back? Is that really even possible? It it just regression? Does the story benefit from it? Does it make sense, given what has happened? Do we want more of the old Dresden, the old story lines and types, the original style?
I don't have the answers here but am curious to hear your thoughts.
6
DF Spoilers / Should Jim skip to the BAT?
« on: April 07, 2022, 07:30:54 AM »
I am of two minds of this.
On the one hand, I do look forward to Harry's parallel universe experience in Mirror Mirror, Harry fighting a Dragon, Kaiju showing up, and anything that expands on the gods (although I am very wary of the wrestling book...). Even Twelve Months has a lot of potential to be a very interesting book.
We've been told there are (as per latest information) at least 4 to 5 more books (including Twelve months). At the old rate of one every ~1.5 years that would 6-7.5 years away approximately. At the current rate...it could be double that or more.
Each of the books of the BAT are supposed to be BIG novels. So even were Jim writing at his own rate each book would take 2-5 years each. And there are THREE of them.
So worst case scenario, we could be looking at a 30 year window. Which puts Jim in his 80s. Not brilliant I would think for anyone.
Best case scenario, 12 years (and this assumes everything goes perfectly and he writes like a machine and there are no more global disruptions or personal issues etc.). Jim is in his early 60s by this point, and it's roughly 2034.
I don't want a rushed version of the series, and nor do I think Jim should be chained to his desk. For it to even exist, let alone be it's best version, he has to keep loving it. And nor do I think I am in any position to advise or ask Jim to do anything with the series. This is just my thoughts on the subject and want to see what those of you around here think.
The problem is a 30 year commitment feels a bit daunting for a series.
So my question to you all is, should he trim the fat a bit and skip to the BAT?
Finish Twelve Months (assuming he has already started, or if he feels he needs to write it etc). Then straight to the BAT, and all the other case files come out after the BAT or as short stories in between and/or after or even just get shrunk down and included in the BAT. To me, the Dragon fight and the Kaiju stuff would be fine in the BAT. The pro-wrestling feels like it would be just as good as a side story, unless there are major cosmology and/or plot reveals in it. Mirror Mirror does feel like it NEEDS to happen, just because the multiverse stuff is going to be so important. Which is why it would have been good as the next book, but I understand that there are important character reasons for Twelve Months (and Jim clearly feels strongly that this book is important to him to be written, so it's hard to not have it now).
So what do you all think?
On the one hand, I do look forward to Harry's parallel universe experience in Mirror Mirror, Harry fighting a Dragon, Kaiju showing up, and anything that expands on the gods (although I am very wary of the wrestling book...). Even Twelve Months has a lot of potential to be a very interesting book.
We've been told there are (as per latest information) at least 4 to 5 more books (including Twelve months). At the old rate of one every ~1.5 years that would 6-7.5 years away approximately. At the current rate...it could be double that or more.
Each of the books of the BAT are supposed to be BIG novels. So even were Jim writing at his own rate each book would take 2-5 years each. And there are THREE of them.
So worst case scenario, we could be looking at a 30 year window. Which puts Jim in his 80s. Not brilliant I would think for anyone.
Best case scenario, 12 years (and this assumes everything goes perfectly and he writes like a machine and there are no more global disruptions or personal issues etc.). Jim is in his early 60s by this point, and it's roughly 2034.
I don't want a rushed version of the series, and nor do I think Jim should be chained to his desk. For it to even exist, let alone be it's best version, he has to keep loving it. And nor do I think I am in any position to advise or ask Jim to do anything with the series. This is just my thoughts on the subject and want to see what those of you around here think.
The problem is a 30 year commitment feels a bit daunting for a series.
So my question to you all is, should he trim the fat a bit and skip to the BAT?
Finish Twelve Months (assuming he has already started, or if he feels he needs to write it etc). Then straight to the BAT, and all the other case files come out after the BAT or as short stories in between and/or after or even just get shrunk down and included in the BAT. To me, the Dragon fight and the Kaiju stuff would be fine in the BAT. The pro-wrestling feels like it would be just as good as a side story, unless there are major cosmology and/or plot reveals in it. Mirror Mirror does feel like it NEEDS to happen, just because the multiverse stuff is going to be so important. Which is why it would have been good as the next book, but I understand that there are important character reasons for Twelve Months (and Jim clearly feels strongly that this book is important to him to be written, so it's hard to not have it now).
So what do you all think?
7
DF Spoilers / Jim Butcher Well Wishing
« on: March 06, 2022, 06:47:39 AM »
Hey Paranetters,
Just wondering who might be interested in making a video or something along those lines?
The idea would be wishing Jim well and to say thanks for bringing a bit of joy to our lives. Maybe each person would submit a 5-10 second video just saying thanks and/or best wishes (or longer video if we don't have many people). Nothing too strenuous on our part. I would compile it into a single video maybe a few minutes max, and send it to him (or one of his team).
For those who might wish to remain anonymous, they could submit a short sentence or voice clip attributed to a webhandle or some such.
Hopefully it would be well received and just let the guy know there's a lot of love for him out there, and that we're thinking of him.
What do you think?
Just wondering who might be interested in making a video or something along those lines?
The idea would be wishing Jim well and to say thanks for bringing a bit of joy to our lives. Maybe each person would submit a 5-10 second video just saying thanks and/or best wishes (or longer video if we don't have many people). Nothing too strenuous on our part. I would compile it into a single video maybe a few minutes max, and send it to him (or one of his team).
For those who might wish to remain anonymous, they could submit a short sentence or voice clip attributed to a webhandle or some such.
Hopefully it would be well received and just let the guy know there's a lot of love for him out there, and that we're thinking of him.
What do you think?
8
DF Spoilers / Identity theories
« on: January 11, 2022, 05:57:50 AM »
From Battle Ground we know he has been the legendary hero Beowulf, and Jim himself has confirmed that Vadderung (Odin) has held many identities - the latest of which is Vadderung. Some are clearly more mortal than others e.g. Beowulf.
We also were introduced in Cold Days to the idea that Vadderung takes on and loses mantles when he needs to - his most significant is Kringle.
Given what we know, what possible identities could he also have held? Some would have been heroes but we are talking legends here - some would be older than Viking myths.
I would have considered Merlin if were not for the fact that Mab doesn't seem to recognise Vadderung as Merlin. Now it's possible Vadderung is keeping that a secret from her but why bother? And from what we learn in Peace Talks - I think the ending of their relationship (of whatever nature) was quite bad.
But what possible identities could Vadderung have held? And what about Drakul? The idea is to think of legendary heroes and villains from history.
Tell me your best, worst, craziest, and funniest ideas. Have at it!
We also were introduced in Cold Days to the idea that Vadderung takes on and loses mantles when he needs to - his most significant is Kringle.
Given what we know, what possible identities could he also have held? Some would have been heroes but we are talking legends here - some would be older than Viking myths.
I would have considered Merlin if were not for the fact that Mab doesn't seem to recognise Vadderung as Merlin. Now it's possible Vadderung is keeping that a secret from her but why bother? And from what we learn in Peace Talks - I think the ending of their relationship (of whatever nature) was quite bad.
But what possible identities could Vadderung have held? And what about Drakul? The idea is to think of legendary heroes and villains from history.
Tell me your best, worst, craziest, and funniest ideas. Have at it!
9
DF Spoilers / Peace Talks interesting things and questions
« on: January 04, 2022, 06:50:55 AM »
1. Who cut out Ethniu's eye?
Obviously would have to be something big, both literally and figuratively. It's our assumption that the Black Council are the ones who gave her the Eye, as it fits their M.O.
That being said, it could have been another group. Say, Tessa and Imariel and her more chaotic Denarians? They all love chaos and destruction. But also, what about the Outsiders themselves?
I could definitely see He Who Walks Behind having a role. He's been established as more than a demon, more than a hitman; he's a manipulator and a peer of Uriel. So he could definitely tear out the eye of a Goddess. He also could be large enough to leave such big scars. We have to remember that anything that could scar Titanic Bronze on a Titan is a serious being.
Another candidate is Lucifer himself. But why he would get that involved is harder to work out.
2. Is Ebenezar a Denarian?
The question is why? He already is a wizard, so he has power. He already wields the Blackstaff, so he already has a dark deal. Why get another? And when would he have done it? Why isn't he aiding the other Denarians?
Hard to say on any accounts. Perhaps, like Mab, he needs all the power he can get to do what he feels he has to. Cowl felt much the same. Simon even expressed sentiments of frustration on the limitations of being a wizard in the Paranet Papers. When he would have done it is impossible to tell, but I would guess it would have been before the Blackstaff was his (in this hypothetical scenario). And perhaps we just don't see him aid the other Denarians because it's all in the background. Or perhaps he is a rebel (along with his Fallen) and doesn't care to help the others. Or perhaps...he is leading the other Nemesis-infected beings, and he and his Fallen are in the same boat.
Quote
On that perfect bronze face, the mutilation of her eye stood out like a gallows in a public park. The orbital ridges around the socket were covered in white, granite-like scars, as if the biggest, ugliest cat you’d ever seen had scratched it out. It wasn’t sunken, though the lid was closed. That mangled eye bulged ever so slightly, as if it had been meant for a being considerably larger than she was.
Obviously would have to be something big, both literally and figuratively. It's our assumption that the Black Council are the ones who gave her the Eye, as it fits their M.O.
That being said, it could have been another group. Say, Tessa and Imariel and her more chaotic Denarians? They all love chaos and destruction. But also, what about the Outsiders themselves?
I could definitely see He Who Walks Behind having a role. He's been established as more than a demon, more than a hitman; he's a manipulator and a peer of Uriel. So he could definitely tear out the eye of a Goddess. He also could be large enough to leave such big scars. We have to remember that anything that could scar Titanic Bronze on a Titan is a serious being.
Another candidate is Lucifer himself. But why he would get that involved is harder to work out.
2. Is Ebenezar a Denarian?
Quote
Hovering maybe twenty feet up, with his feet planted firmly on a stone the size of a Buick, was the Blackstaff, Ebenezar McCoy. One hand was spread out to one side for balance, fingers crooked in a mystic sign, sort of a kinetic shorthand for whatever spell was keeping that boulder in the air.Now, it could just be about the amount of power in the staff that Ebenezar was putting into it. But. I seem to remember Harry's own runes on his staff used to glow the same color when using magic while he possessed a Coin. Considering how angry and barely controlled Ebenezar is...I could see a Denarian egging him along. One of the big things with Denarians is the reveal, the sucker punch. It would be quite the surprise to learn he is a Denarian.
The other gripped his staff, carved with runes like mine, and they glowed with sullen red-orange energy. His face had twisted into a rictus of cold, hard fury. Flickers of static electricity played along the surface of the stone.
The question is why? He already is a wizard, so he has power. He already wields the Blackstaff, so he already has a dark deal. Why get another? And when would he have done it? Why isn't he aiding the other Denarians?
Hard to say on any accounts. Perhaps, like Mab, he needs all the power he can get to do what he feels he has to. Cowl felt much the same. Simon even expressed sentiments of frustration on the limitations of being a wizard in the Paranet Papers. When he would have done it is impossible to tell, but I would guess it would have been before the Blackstaff was his (in this hypothetical scenario). And perhaps we just don't see him aid the other Denarians because it's all in the background. Or perhaps he is a rebel (along with his Fallen) and doesn't care to help the others. Or perhaps...he is leading the other Nemesis-infected beings, and he and his Fallen are in the same boat.
10
DF Spoilers / Star born and the Antichrist
« on: August 22, 2021, 11:52:57 PM »
So recently I was reading through Storm Front looking for other bits of information, and I stumbled upon a passage where Harry says "I was a walking Antichrist waiting to happen".
Given that Jim has said previously he has clues in Storm Front that no one apparently has picked up on, and that he planned certain things that affect the ending of the series way back in book 1 (or something along those lines), I believe that this clue might be one of those things. Especially given what we know now about star born from the last few books.
So I thought I would refresh my mind about the lore around the Antichrist and I found a few good things.
Given that Jim has said previously he has clues in Storm Front that no one apparently has picked up on, and that he planned certain things that affect the ending of the series way back in book 1 (or something along those lines), I believe that this clue might be one of those things. Especially given what we know now about star born from the last few books.
So I thought I would refresh my mind about the lore around the Antichrist and I found a few good things.
- Firstly, the name is combination of the word "Christ" which meant "annointed one" in ancient Greek and "Anti" which means "instead of" and "against" and "in place of".
- There is potentially more than one Antichrist. "He is one and he is many."
This is super significant to me. The idea comes from the New Testament of the Bible and there are dual terms - Pseudochrist and Antichrist. The Pseudochrist means "False Messiah" and I will go into this more in another point. It's interesting to note that sometimes Antichrist was in plural form and could refer to a particular category of people rather than a singular individual.QuoteLittle children, it is the last hour: and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
— 1 John 2:18 Douay-Rheims
To me, this could be the star born. Individuals who possess the potential to be these Antichrists. Perhaps the term became distorted from the what it really means in the Dresden Universe. One thing we know is that many things have multiple names and identities, and many things get lost, so it's possible that Antichrists or even Christ might not mean what we think it does, especially as we only have reference to our world. - The Pseudochrist is a term more about an individual person who will try and displace Christ and lead good Christians astray. I don't believe this is exactly the same for the Dresden Files but I think there are some similarities.
In Chapter 2 of Thesssalonians:QuoteAs to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction [Ed note - possibly translated also as "the son of destruction"]. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God.
— 2 Thessalonians 2:1–4 NRSV (1989)
Who could be called "the lawless one" in the Dresden Files? The "one destined for destruction"? Sounds quite like Harry Dresden whom Mab has called "an elemental of destruction", and Morgan called a possible "Destroyer" (capital D). What doesn't quite gel is the idea of Harry opposing and exalting himself above every god, and declaring himself to be God.
So I propose there are two possible answers. One is that Harry is not the actual Pseudochrist, he's just a red herring, and someone like Elaine or Cowl or whoever is.
The other possibility is that Harry is this Pseudochrist but doesn't yet realise it but the language of the passage is misleading. Harry elevating himself above gods is about ascending to be a god, and declaring himself to "be" God is about the nature of star born.
I believe the latter is more likely. I think it's possible that star born are actually part of TWG in the Dresden Files, and Harry will realise that, but it also means he can become a monster. There are several hints about Harry becoming immortal - particularly Mab in Battle Ground. So in this scenario Harry the Pseudochrist and/or Antichrist is not the opposite of Christ, but merely has the potential to be. Case in point - look at Drakul. - Irenaeus wrote a book "Against Heresies" to refute the teachings of the Gnostics (a sect of Christianity sort-of). He used the number 666 to decode several possible names.
It is interesting right after Harry refers to himself as "a walking Antichrist waiting to happen" Harry then quotes Yeats "Second Coming". Could Harry be the "slouching Beast, waiting to be born"?
Indeed, Hippolytus of Rome identified the Antichrist with the Beast of the Earth from Revelations.QuoteBy the beast, then, coming up out of the earth, he means the kingdom of Antichrist; and by the two horns he means him and the false prophet after him. And in speaking of "horns like a lamb," he means that he will make himself like the Son of God, and set himself forward as king. And the terms, "it spoke like a dragon," mean that he is a deceiver, and not truthful.[21]
Interestingly, one of the few other confirmed star born just happens to be called Dragon, or rather, Drakul. We know in history Vlad II Drakul was named so because of his affiliation with a knightly order called the Order of the Dragon. Perhaps the Order of the Dragon were not a holy order (not in the sense of the Knights of the Cross) but perhaps more like a particularly dark sect devoted to a terrible truth of Christianity. Perhaps they were really just the Order of the Antichrist.
Also - this is a good example of how saying something was "like a Dragon" didn't literally mean a Dragon. It was an allegory for liars and decievers - the word Dragon comes from the ancient Greek word "Drakon" which meant serpent. As we know in Christian theology, it is the Serpent in the Garden of Eden who is the tempter and the liar. - Jerome of Stridon said in his Commentary on Daniel Quote
"Let us not follow the opinion of some commentators and suppose him to be either the Devil or some demon, but rather, one of the human race, in whom Satan will wholly take up his residence in bodily form." Instead of rebuilding the Jewish Temple to reign from, Jerome thought the Antichrist sat in God's Temple inasmuch as he made "himself out to be like God." He refuted Porphyry's idea that the "little horn" mentioned in Daniel chapter 7 was Antiochus IV Epiphanes by noting that the "little horn" is defeated by an eternal, universal ruler, right before the final judgment.[29] Instead, he advocated that the "little horn" was the Antichrist:
Satan in human form. Interesting that one of the star born we know of (Drakul) is "something entirely unhuman trapped in mortal form". Drakul's eyes are also described as "black as the soul of Hell".
I am not so sure Drakul is Lucifer in human form though...but an aspect of the Devil could work, or a demon, either would work well enough. I feel like an Archangel would be too big and powerful to be in one body so perhaps spreads his power into several...or perhaps they are more like his children. I know Uriel transubstantiated into a single body (yet I suspect he was still operating in other universes - so the stakes might not have been *quite* as high as Dresden and Michael thought), even if Uriel just vanished from the multiverse to concentrate himself into a single event in space-time it could well be an entirely different circumstance as Lucifer is known for breaking the rules, after all.
So I feel like these Antichrists are more likely the sons/daughters of Lucifer if anything.
What's interesting is Jim has been quite coy on the subject of Lucifer. He has said Lucifer does rule in Hell as that was the deal and you can't get any worse than him, but he's also went back on what we were lead to believe in Small Favor in that Lucifer didn't personally unload his power on Earth, more likely a lieutenant did it for him. The way he said it was almost like he was trying to hint at something. - The Antichrist could be a mantle. The Wisconsin Lutheran Synod:Quote
The Bible does not present the Antichrist as one man for one short time, but as an office held by a man through successive generations. It is a title like King of England.
Sounds like a mantle to me. And as we know, mantles are an excellent way for mortals to become immortal (without a rite of ascendance) and therefore perhaps more reversible. - The Son of Perdition has often been associated and included as being the same as the Antichrist. The Son of Perdition has multiple different titles e.g. The Lost Child and The Child of Corruption. Even "the one doomed to destruction" is another possible translation, and some associate the Son of Perdition with being the "Man of Sin".
The idea comes from an association with "the star that fell from Heaven" using certain language - two names, one that is Greek and one that is Hebrew. The Greek name Apollyon refers to "eternal destruction, utter loss, and disasociation" and the Hebrew name Abaddon which it's root word "abad" is the same as the root of Apollyon "apollumni". It is said to be the destiny of "the great beast" to be slain and his body destroyed ('abad') and his body given to eternal flame (Hell).
Harry, being an orphan, was a "lost child" and was raised at a formative age by a dark wizard - so could also be "a child of corruption". - Apart from being widely recognised as the Son of Satan, according to the monk and abbot Adso of Montier-en-Der, the Antichrist would be raised in all forms of wickedness by wizards.
That couldn't be our protagonist...could it?
11
DF Spoilers / Storm Front - hidden clues
« on: August 13, 2021, 02:34:15 PM »
I am going to list a number of strange, possible clues in no particular order:
1) The Toad Demon - it rubs minds with Dresden. Dresden couldn't tell what an Outsider was or not at this point, but it's interesting his will directly came into contact with it and though it was horrible it didn't mark him. Despite his brain rubbing against it.
2) Dark magic. Similar visually to escaped nightmare in The Sandman comics (almost certainly ripped) - Dresden Sees (with his Sight) some sort of spirit/demon that scatters before him but hungers and feeds off of Dark Magic residue that Victor Sells produces. Is this possibly why Sorcerers and Warlocks go mad? Is it because these beings drive them mad or is it that they possess them, or is it something else?
3) Dresden's thoughts about what he could do with dark magic, particularly the power gathered around Victor Sells' house, is very similar to the thinking of Drakul or Cowl. Perhaps that's coincidence but some of the language is quite similar e.g. "bearded old fools"/"immaculate beardlinesses" and "shape the world to my liking"/"power to remake the world in one's own image".
4) Mac is in this book, along with Marcone. I think it's no coincidence that a retired angel and an incipient Knight of the Blackened Denarius are in this book. Marcone is most assuredly Dresden's ultimate villain, and is a big part of Hell's plan. But Marcone likely has his own ideas. Mac's presence might be to do with something else...
5) Harry almost loses control and his willpower gives out - but then *something* intervenes (likely his mother but maybe someone else) and lifts his hand to his mother's pendant. It helps him be clear even though his thoughts are being corrupted and clouded.
6) Dresden says "I was a walking Antichrist waiting to happen". I think this is huge foreshadowing passed off as Dresden being glib. Considering what we know now about star born. Considering we know it only happens every 666 years...I think it's highly possible Harry is a possible Antichrist. Not the Antichrist. But a possible one. I don't really know what that means but I guarantee it's to do with Lucifer and his war.
1) The Toad Demon - it rubs minds with Dresden. Dresden couldn't tell what an Outsider was or not at this point, but it's interesting his will directly came into contact with it and though it was horrible it didn't mark him. Despite his brain rubbing against it.
2) Dark magic. Similar visually to escaped nightmare in The Sandman comics (almost certainly ripped) - Dresden Sees (with his Sight) some sort of spirit/demon that scatters before him but hungers and feeds off of Dark Magic residue that Victor Sells produces. Is this possibly why Sorcerers and Warlocks go mad? Is it because these beings drive them mad or is it that they possess them, or is it something else?
3) Dresden's thoughts about what he could do with dark magic, particularly the power gathered around Victor Sells' house, is very similar to the thinking of Drakul or Cowl. Perhaps that's coincidence but some of the language is quite similar e.g. "bearded old fools"/"immaculate beardlinesses" and "shape the world to my liking"/"power to remake the world in one's own image".
4) Mac is in this book, along with Marcone. I think it's no coincidence that a retired angel and an incipient Knight of the Blackened Denarius are in this book. Marcone is most assuredly Dresden's ultimate villain, and is a big part of Hell's plan. But Marcone likely has his own ideas. Mac's presence might be to do with something else...
5) Harry almost loses control and his willpower gives out - but then *something* intervenes (likely his mother but maybe someone else) and lifts his hand to his mother's pendant. It helps him be clear even though his thoughts are being corrupted and clouded.
6) Dresden says "I was a walking Antichrist waiting to happen". I think this is huge foreshadowing passed off as Dresden being glib. Considering what we know now about star born. Considering we know it only happens every 666 years...I think it's highly possible Harry is a possible Antichrist. Not the Antichrist. But a possible one. I don't really know what that means but I guarantee it's to do with Lucifer and his war.
12
DF Spoilers / Did Rashid kick Harry out of the White Council with an ulterior motive?
« on: July 13, 2021, 12:32:06 AM »
I believe it's possible that Rashid didn't simply vote Harry out because of whatever the stated reasons were i.e. Harry going rogue and being dangerous etc.
I think he might have been doing it so that Harry and the White Council will become more adversarial and set things in motion for the White Council to fall.
I am not sure why the Gatekeeper wants/expects this. I doubt it's for the same reasons as Cowl though, at least not entirely. Maybe it is a Dr Strange type deal, the White Council must fall so that the planet can be saved.
I think he might have been doing it so that Harry and the White Council will become more adversarial and set things in motion for the White Council to fall.
I am not sure why the Gatekeeper wants/expects this. I doubt it's for the same reasons as Cowl though, at least not entirely. Maybe it is a Dr Strange type deal, the White Council must fall so that the planet can be saved.
13
DF Spoilers / How hard did Ebenezar try to kill Lord Raith?
« on: June 19, 2021, 09:30:26 PM »
Do we really think Eb tried that hard to kill Lord Raith? Yes, magic seems to roll off Raith. But as Margaret worked out, the Hunger is vulnerable. Harry even guessed (mid-fight) that Raith likely wasn't immune to magic wielded physical objects. Eb surely could have worked that out. Also, when Eb tries to kill targets he isn't exactly subtle. He killed Ortega with a goddamn satellite. For revenge for his daughter...I am surprised he didn't use a bloodline curse like the one in Changes or just set off a tornado or volcano or something. It's not like he couldn't set it up.
By all accounts he is a bigger hot head than Harry. Look what Harry did when the vampires kidnapped his daughter. I just can't understand why Ebenezar has allowed the White Court to exist...let alone the White King.
By all accounts he is a bigger hot head than Harry. Look what Harry did when the vampires kidnapped his daughter. I just can't understand why Ebenezar has allowed the White Court to exist...let alone the White King.
14
DF Spoilers / MOVED: Girls' Night Out for Mab and Sarissa
« on: June 12, 2021, 02:45:15 AM »
This topic has been moved to Bob's Comedy Emporium.
https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=54296.0
https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?topic=54296.0