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Messages - Yuillegan

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1246
DF Spoilers / Nemesis WAG
« on: February 04, 2019, 05:56:41 AM »
Alright guys, here is a pretty wild theory here.

In Marvel comics, there is a being of extraordinary power called Nemesis. It existed before the Universe (ultraverse/multiverse) and became tired of it's existence. It split itself six ways into the infinity stones. And that act was the Big Bang that destroyed the previous universe creating the current one.

Now we know that Jim is a good old marvel fan, and has been reading it a long time. Perhaps as part of his inspiration was this story.

I do not think that the Nemesis in the DF is the being that split into the Queens of Faerie, I think Hecate is still a strong connection there. But I do think then that perhaps the Nemesis in DF might well be something from before the Universe. I suspect that it might even be related. Perhaps even on the scale of a Creator itself. Why do I say that? Well just think about what it can do for a second. It can cause beings who cannot lie, to lie. It can corrupt the good and twist the evil into destroying themselves. It literally changes reality with it's corruption. It can take a way a mortal's free will. It does what even an Archangel cannot. That is TWG level power. It literally can create new futures - new realities - by taking away or subverting Free Will and Choice.

Thoughts?

1247
So the theory with the Spear of Destiny, or Spear of Longinus as it is rightly called, is that whoever holds it is either invincible or their "power" increases 10-fold.

Interestingly, while Harry held the Spear he didn't do anything particularly magical with it, yet defeated all his enemies soundly in all situations. In fact despite the increasing difficulty of situations, whilst he held the Spear, he overcame all odds.

Now this isn't weird for Harry as he is constantly defying and beating far more powerful and deadly beings and overcoming extraordinary situations. But it bears thinking on that once Harry held the Spear, neither he nor his allies died or were wounded or defeated in any meaningful way.

Another interesting thing is the Odin's Spear Gungnir is sometimes equated with making the holder invincible - and Odin hung from Yggdrasil the World Tree, his side pierced by Gungnir and he passed through Death as was reborn. Modern historians find this story to be a more recent one, equated with the spread of Christianity into Scandinavia where the Vikings would have found connections between the two religions and absorbed Christian stories into Viking ones i.e. Christ's crucifixion was remodeled into a myth about Odin. Indeed the Vikings were known to worship both the Norse Gods and Christ, some even having the Cross on the back of Mjolnir (Thor's hammer).

I suspect if Dresden were to use it actively you guess correctly that he will likely kill himself in order to ascend or some such. I don't think it will be as mundane as a merely stabby object for a big villain.

1248
DF Spoilers / Re: Weird Inconsistency in Skin Game
« on: February 03, 2019, 03:30:47 AM »
Groinkick - I find that unlikely considering he had forced her into a lock that brought her to her knees. I can tell you as Purple Belt in BJJ, if some gets you that good, you will struggle to get up unless that is what they want. Not to mention she had just been shot in the got multiple times. But even if it were the case that she got up in between, why not describe the action? Jim normally is reasonably descriptive and in such a pivotal scene it would make logical sense to include such action in order to reinforce the dramatic nature of the following violence, which benches Murphy for the rest of the book.

From both a logical and writing perspective, it just doesn't add up.

1249
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council/The Circle/Nemesis
« on: February 02, 2019, 09:41:49 AM »
Not to spoil the fun but Bad Alias is right - the Athame (Morgan Le Fay's Athame) that Lea receives is NOT the Spear of Destiny. That would be pretty unlikely considering it was hidden deeply in some part of the Greek Underworld along with several other objects of Christ.

Consider that the Athame itself is still up there with a Sword of the Cross - that still makes it exceptional in it's own right considering what we know of the Swords. Consider also that Amorrachius has also been Excalibur in the age of Merlin...who as we all know instructed Morgan Le Fay. He also had a relationship with Nimue - the Lady of the Lake. She was a sort of fae goddess, I suspect quite likely it was Mab before she was Mab (when she was still a Lady). That puts both instruments in use around the same time.

And Bad Alias - I see what you are saying, just pointing out that Dresden only realised during this book that the Black Council might just be a smaller piece of the puzzle. In saying that - I think the passage I quoted was the first textual piece of exposition where Dresden has his realisation. He may well have had it earlier, but I can't find any passage before that particular one that suggests this might be so.

1250
DF Spoilers / Re: Our
« on: January 31, 2019, 11:35:19 PM »
The way I see it for the Queens is that the higher up you go, the more they are whoever they were and the less human they are. The Mother's being the closest to who they were are the most likely to understand and recognize it.

I don't recall Uriel using our. I'd imagine he was talking about a class of beings he is a part of.

Quite possibly - certainly the way the Queens and Ladies talk about themselves as opposed to how the Mothers are is very very different. The Mothers are definitely closer to the original being/beings.

I am referring to the part where he discusses healing Michael in Skin Game.
(click to show/hide)

It intrigues me, Harry was a bit distracted but were he paying more attention perhaps he would have asked what Uriel meant by "Our".

Salusen - check out the excellent GUMCT post Serack made - should give you a good base on the Mothers.

1251
DF Spoilers / Re: Weird Inconsistency in Skin Game
« on: January 31, 2019, 02:54:06 AM »
I am aware of the difference between the phrases, and that was my conclusion too, however it is a pretty clumsy piece of writing (which is pretty rare for Jim).

It is just one of those limitations from how the author sees a scene in their head, to how it is then transposed through the (quite limited) form of writing, to how a reader then interprets it. While it doesn't take away from the scene, and when I read it the first time I don't even think I noticed, it just is a bit jarring.

1252
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council/The Circle/Nemesis
« on: January 30, 2019, 05:07:50 AM »
@Yuillegan: Molly definitely conflates the Black Council with Nemesis while Harry is talking in Cold Days. Harry just goes with it because of all the reasons one isn't supposed to go around talking about Nemesis. Regardless of what's actually going on, the term Black Council to describe members of the White Council working in opposition to it is useful, even if every single one of them is infected.

Not quite, you have it in reverse - in the actual passage he allow Molly to assume that the Black Council is merely Wizards rather than something far larger and more problematic.

(click to show/hide)
That passage is from Cold Days - Chapter 28.

What he is realising in that moment is that it is far more likely that the Enemy he faces is in far more organisations, perhaps most if not all organisations, and represents a far more formidable and difficult threat. Even though later we understand that Lily was being manipulated, most of her information was sound. I think this passage also helps clear up that not everything that is working for/with the Adversary is necessarily infected. Many are supporters and cat's paws of the really bad guys (which may include Nemesis) - possibly a mixture of the weak seeking strength, the resentful seeking a return to glory, the scared looking for protection and the evil looking for more refined and terrible forms of cruelty and destruction.

1253
DF Spoilers / Our
« on: January 30, 2019, 03:31:04 AM »
There is this random thing where beings like Mother Summer and Winter, Uriel refer themselves occasionally as "our". Perhaps this is Jim's use of the royal "our" and they are speaking in third person...but I think it is a bit of hint. Certainly it is made a fuss of when Mother Summer says it when talking about Names and Masks in Cold Days.

It has long been speculated that Mother Summer and Winter are actually two parts of a greater being...though I believe Jim has hinted that all 6 queens actually make up the greater whole.

But is Uriel an aspect of a larger being too? Is he an Avatar of TWG or some such? Was he merely referring to Heaven's power? Is the Uriel in Dresden Files a sliver of the much larger Uriel that spans all worlds and realities?

1254
DF Spoilers / Re: The Nature of the Creator
« on: January 30, 2019, 03:25:42 AM »
Quote
2015 San Francisco signing (Coopersfield Books)
I’m pretty sure the outsiders are the outsiders and they just sort of look different depending on which universe they are trying to get into and destroy.

http://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-other-bad-guys-beyond-the-outer-gates-demonreach/

There you go Bad Alias.


1255
DF Spoilers / Weird Inconsistency in Skin Game
« on: January 30, 2019, 03:09:40 AM »
In the fight between Karen and Nicodemus, he has just shot Karen in the belly during their sword fight. She still manages to get Fidelacchius to his throat somehow...and then when she strikes while he is defenceless (after asking to be saved and removing his tie, coin and weapons) she then breaks the sword. Immediately he headbutts her and strikes her in the jaw. Then she fights back and loses their sparring and ends up in a lock the forces her to her knees. Then SOMEHOW he strikes her knee and breaks is, and she falls to the ground. The thing is though..how is that possible? She was already on the ground kneeling (a very strong position for a knee for a start) and then he breaks her knee and she falls to the ground again. But she was ALREADY on the ground

(click to show/hide)

1256
DF Spoilers / Re: The Nature of the Creator
« on: January 29, 2019, 07:28:14 AM »
My recollection may be mistaken, but what I recall is that Jim said something about how Satan was "for" creation's existence but had a philosophical disagreement about it with TWG that humans couldn't/wouldn't understand. I'm also sure I'm slightly mischaracterizing it.

Yeah, TWG either was an Outsider or created the Outsider's too. Jim has said that the Creator created the inside and told the Outsiders to stay out, and they did because he was the Creator. I can't remember what term he used for the Creator, but the implication is that the Creator is more powerful/as powerful as all the Outsider's put together.

Pretty much spot on, we as humans cannot grasp fully the complexities of the whole argument as we are too limited. But what he is against was humanities Free Will.

Yes I agree, the implication is that He is stronger. Though I wonder if that is because He can create a Cosmos, or because inside his Creation he is the Boss. The whole weird thing with Outsiders is they look different depending on which reality they are trying to enter - which I think is a bit of hint to the whole thing.

1257
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council/The Circle/Nemesis
« on: January 29, 2019, 06:06:44 AM »
Good ideas all, but I seem to remember in one of the more recent novels that Harry has an epiphany where he realises what he assumed, in his arrogance, was a group of dark wizards could be something much larger and more complex and diverse in it's affliates and members.

I think this is when he is getting a better idea about Nemesis etc.

1258
DF Spoilers / Re: The Nature of the Creator
« on: January 28, 2019, 01:16:20 AM »
Great stuff Serack, certainly all very plausible. I can certainly see how Mother Winter and other destructive Powers might have Outsider origin, but as they are not "true" Outsiders they are still "for Reality". They are also able to fulfill their various duties as cleaners, wardens etc. Winter serves a special purpose in the DFU, and Summer exists to check and balance it.

I do think that a small spanner in the works is the Prince of Darkness. He isn't against Reality per se, according to WOJ, but he is against the idea of Free Will (or something to that effect). I do wonder about his purpose (either initially or currently). Interestingly, Lucifer is means "Lightbringer" normally interpreted to mean the knowledge-bearer (and if there is a theme in the Genesis, it is that knowledge is dangerous), but he is often referred to as The Prince of Darkness (named in DF) which is almost the complete opposite - these two ideas seemingly at odds. Perhaps he went beyond the borders of Reality and found knowledge that drove him to rebel against his Master and/or Creator? Perhaps he acquired some dark powers in the Outside? Did his nature change or did he fulfill his purpose? Or are they even the same being (we know one can be two...)?

The Dragons (like Ferrovax) also are hard to place. They are clearly high level cosmic beings, and had important jobs in the early days of creation (described as geological movements etc). So where do they fit in?

In my opinion, it was always obvious that TWG and the Outsiders/Old Ones were linked. By definition - TWG (as Creator) came before Creation, so must have come from "Outside" of it. That would imply some level of bond - even if distant - to the Outsiders. Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom series touches on this, with the Architect (creator) coming from "Nothing" (a similar concept to Chaos/Outside) and being a type (perhaps the first type) of Nithling (Nix's version of Outsiders). Nix never does go into why no other similarly powerful being then emerged after, however.

What will be interesting to see is whether any other Outsider Lords/Old Ones are of similar power to TWG, and why TWG chose to break away - even if it was just pure instinct. In a strange way, it reminds me of the Warhammer 40k Chaos God Malice/Malal, who represented Chaos' nature to turn against itself.

1259
To answer the OP - yes there is. Search in the Reference collection or WOJ.

Initially Jim said that Archangels and the Faerie Queens and Gods were of the same level. This was established in the early books but has essentially been retconned. TWG/Almighty is considered the top of the food chain (though what exactly it is has not been explained). Archangel are the tier below that (Jim called them VP's of Creation - these days in corporate they would more likely be SVPs and Officers, but I will get into that in a second). Archangels have been said to have the power to annihilate galaxies with their thoughts, take apart all the worlds everywhere etc. This is both WOJ and in the later novels. A particular Archangel (the Prince of Darkness) has been called an "officer" of Hell. This was met with some confusion by fans when Hades (the god) is considered the CEO of his own little company, but Lucifer is an Officer. In current corporate lingo, an officer is generally one of the highest executive positions (and includes the CEO, and sometimes Chair and/or President - the terms generally amount to the same thing). This resolves the confusion somewhat, that as a senior Archangel Lucifer is up the top, but as we don't know much about Hell or how it functions or it's purpose, we cannot understand why Lucifer might not be the Chairman. My guess is technically TWG is Chairman as Hell serves a purpose, and as constantly stated around the books, Power has Purpose.

Of note, recently we discovered that the Walker He Who Walks Behind is considered on the same level as an Archangel. This was odd as the other Walker, He Who Walks Before, was considered as "big as Mab, but unimaginably deeper". This suggests we don't fully understand how the Power levels really work yet.

The Mothers are also considered as high as Archangels, and have been described as orders of magnitude greater than the Queens.

The next level are Gods, Queens, Dragons, Angels, Fallen. Depending on how much they are involved depends where they fall but it is clear from WOJ that just because you have more brute force, doesn't mean you have more influence or are more deadly. Often the inverse is true. Compare Vadderung/Kringle and Hades. Hades might well have more muscle these days, Vadderung has seemingly sacrificed much of his former Power to retain influence in the world. On the other hand, his influence seems much more pervasive and dangerous comparatively. Drakul, Ferrovax and the council of Black Court Elders are on this level. Also to some degree, the Lords of the Outer Night. Various demons and Outsiders exist here and below.

The Leansidhe, Eldest Gruff, the Erlking and Kringle are the next level. I would say that Mouse when in the Carpenter's home and Ivy fall in somewhere around here. I put Kringle here as Vadderung's power and influence jumps around - he sits on a few levels depending on the mask he wears I suspect.

Below them is the Ladies and possible OG Merlin and perhaps Morganna Le Fay, maybe Kemmler. I would hazard that the Ladies have more brute force because of what they represent, but not necessarily more influential than the others. OG Naagloshii.

The Senior Council types and some others are probably next - maybe some of the Bigfoot types. The Cantrev Lords of the Formor are also somewhere here. Regular Skinwalkers.

Finally regular Wizards, fae etc.

Vanilla mortals - which as JB keeps stressing, should not be mistaken for harmless, especially when massed, planned, well researched and angry. We did invent nukes after all.

Side note - The Old Ones (possibly the Old Gods - there is some confusion on this) who a race of demon gods that ruled the Earth and were banished or locked away and rule the Outsiders, are not included in this list. That is because we know almost nothing about them. Bob mentioned they could cross a threshold and do all kinds of damage - which was considered pretty bad, he also compared them to a big old god. I suspect that en masse they could well challenge TWG himself. Why? Because of a little known WOJ. In it, he describes that Lucifer is nowhere near the biggest bad on the tree for the simple fact that he is FOR REALITY. Lucifer is having an existential argument with TWG that we can only vaguely grasp. But it seems his is Team Reality. The Old Ones wish for no more reality it seems. Which is why Jim considers Nicodemus more dangerous to reality than Lucifer, in some ways. Both Vadderung and the Mothers have described the twin events of the prisoners of Demonreach getting free and the Outsiders breaking through the gate as not merely catastrophic, but the end (or "everything stops. everything" as Mother Summer put it). The term Empty Night seems to be a big hint, as has been thrown around a few times in the series.

Hope that helps :)

1260
DF Books / Re: If I were Jim...
« on: December 07, 2018, 07:30:23 AM »
Then lucky it isn't you then. He also has spent the last 4 years with his new wife eh? Not to mention, I am actually proposing to make his life easier unlike the rest of you who are determined to work him into his seventies...I don't want him slaving over this forever.


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