Evil Bob is implying that he knows McCoy's handiwork. Which would imply a relationship of sorts. He knows the kind of wizard's staff he creates, he knows McCoy's style. He even name dropped McCoy to Harry, because he is aware at least in part of their relationship.
Bob could be showing off his knowledge to try to intimidate Dresden.
I think it's probably this.
Evil Bob might not be completely cut off from the post-Kemmler knowledge Bob acquired; Bob was "activated" in Evil Bob mode in DB before Harry made him cut the memories loose totally. So IMO Evil Bob could potentially know that Harry learned from Eb because Bob knew that in DB.
He might not *really* have any personal experience with Eb's style.
Arjan - I think what you're saying is that because Eb was on the original hunt for Kemmler, it's likely Evil Bob would have seen him then. That's definitely possible...but why did Jim write that line? Why signal to the reader that Evil Bob knew McCoy's work? It's a deliberate sentence.And Kemmler might have gathered information about his enemies. If so Eb would certainly got his attention an Bob would have helped.
Arjan, I agree with you there. Harry is dangerously ignorant. But I don't agree that the sentence is signalling that Eb would recognise Bob immediately. That might be true anyway but I believe that there is more to it.Lucio knew about Bob, Justin certainly knew about Bob. I think most senior wizards know about Bob and they get a collective fit if they learn about Harry and Bob.
As I said to Walter, Evil Bob could have mentioned any character who makes wizard staffs. He could have mentioned Justin's handiwork. He could have mentioned a famous wizard like the original Merlin, or Kemmler. But Jim wanted to highlight the connection between McCoy and Evil Bob. So I think it's foreshadowing of a reveal - perhaps that McCoy and Evil Bob have worked together. I don't see how or why Evil Bob was saying that as a a warning...
Lucio knew about Bob, Justin certainly knew about Bob. I think most senior wizards know about Bob and they get a collective fit if they learn about Harry and Bob.
Do we have a definitive date of when Kemmler first appears on the scene? I know we have references, but was he someone else prior to Kemmler? Body switch? Was he a WC player before he was the bad guy?
If we follow the "Harry is betrayed by McCoy" line of thinking, maybe Eb's been in league with the Black Council for centuries and the reason Bob knows the work of McCoy is a lot more insidious. We know McCoy knows about Bob. Maybe he KNOWS about Bob in the sense that he possessed him prior to Kemmler.
I don't know. Ugh.
Dresden Spoilers, thy name is rabbit hole.
[1]So can anyone explain to me why Jim would have Evil Bob name drop McCoy? What purpose does it serve in the scene and the greater story?1. Other than your theory of McCoy worked with Evil Bob as Evil Bob, something along the lines of Kurtin's reasoning, and Arjan's thoughts about a larger world and laying the ground work for a confrontation with Eb*, my best guess is it could just be a misdirect. I doubt that because I can't think of any misdirects like that. Most of our misdirects are from characters wrongly explaining how the world works, drawing conclusions when we know their reasoning is inductive rather than deductive, or someone just outright lying to Harry.
[2]Often Jim puts things in scene's which Harry completely ignores or misses. A perfect example is in Chapter 2 where McCoy hints at the true meaning of curse phrase "Stars and Stones" and Harry just snarks back and doesn't bother to uncover it. He is extraordinarily short-sighted still sometimes. [3]But the series is full of them.
It's the humans who often get the best of Harry, because they understand what monsters and the non-humans can't: people are who they are and you have to work with that if you want to change them.Humans are probably the most malleable creatures in the DF. I'd say it's that they don't understand (some) human motivations. It's kind of like Harry says about demons in GP. The demons understand lust, greed, anger, etc. They don't understand "good" emotions, so they don't know how to appeal to our "better angels."
There is a lot we don't know about Bob.Does anyone else get the impression that Bob's been around a lot longer than the time frame we've been told/led to believe? From the timeline:
c 1400: Bob seduces shepherdesses! Neurovore notes that Bob claims to have “about six hundred years worth of memories to sort through in here” [BR 219], which suggests his origin is somewhere in the late fourteenth or early fifteenth century.Bob talks like he's been through a lot of wizards. Could this just be that there's a high turnover rate for possession of Bob? Kemmler had him for 40 to a 100 (150?) years. Justin had him for 20 to 30 by my guess. Harry had him 20 years at most.
...
~1920: Kemmler acquires a certain spirit of air and intellect, bound to a human skull. Bob works for Kemmler about 40 years before. [DB ch 3–thanks to neurovore]
[1]According to Bob, he was responsible for WW1 and put about 150 years of engineering into it which puts him operating at 1765 ish. ...1. Which would have put Kemmler on the outs with the Council for meddling with politics if he was a member in good standing at that point.
[2]APGrey - he at least had Bob for 150 years. Which might contradict something, but that's the Dresden Files for you.
...[3]Luccio may have heard of or read about Bob. She doesn't act like she encountered him. ...
[4]And why wouldn't regular Bob mention [working with McCoy]?
I keep thinking about the way Ebenezer referred to Justin in Blood Rites. He called him "that bastard Du Morne." That level of hatred implies there may have once been a relationship; an alliance, a way of thinking about the world or even a friendship, that existed at one time between Ebenezer and Justin, but was destroyed, most likely by Justin.It just could be that DuMorne abused his grandson.
Didn't Eb write a beginner book on evocation magic that all the little wizards read as part of their apprenticeship? At least in normal times? "McCoy style" isn't that big of a deal to notice if he's had a hand in teaching a bunch of wizards.Yes, buy Yuillegan's question isn't about inconsequential reasons why Evil Bob would know about it. The question is why would Jim put that in there. Probably not because Evil Bob looked it up in a book.
Yes, buy Yuillegan's question isn't about inconsequential reasons why Evil Bob would know about it. The question is why would Jim put that in there. Probably not because Evil Bob looked it up in a book.I mean, the simplest reason is Evil Bob was giving an assessment of the magical work on the staff. It doesn't scream any non-inconsequential reasons to me. McCoy's style of evocation magic is well-known.
Humans are probably the most malleable creatures in the DF. I'd say it's that they don't understand (some) human motivations. It's kind of like Harry says about demons in GP. The demons understand lust, greed, anger, etc. They don't understand "good" emotions, so they don't know how to appeal to our "better angels."Yes, I phrased my position rather poorly. Angels also seem to have trouble understanding human choices as well, though. I think it is because mortals can Choose, and because the others (by and large), cannot. Which makes mortals contradictory, because on the one hand they can be what they Choose to be but on the other hand what they Choose to be shapes them in to being who they are. What I was trying to get at (and failed to adequately articulate...and perhaps still am) is that it's the contradiction that confuses the supernatural types. It goes way back to what He Who Walks Behind Said when he and Harry first met (that we know of).
Second Aristh If anything, the blasting rod or wand is more for evocation. Harry often describes it more like a multi-tool to serve multiple purposes. Yeah...but he didn't write it when he was born or a novice either. It's not like he would have even written a book until he was at least somewhat of an expert, which would take a while. Per WOJ, while he was young he was running around being more violent that Harry! I doubt he was sitting around writing books too. By the time he would have got around to writing the book, he would have been quite a bit older than Harry. Considered a master, if you like. Otherwise why would any of them read it? They would have more than enough information from literally thousands of years of experimentation and gathering of knowledge. So it's shrinks the amount of time considerably when he could have written it, by which time most of the Council at the point Harry makes the comment would have passed their beginner phase.Multiple evocation purposes, yes. A blasting rod is also an evocation tool, but for a more specialized category of spells. It's pretty standard procedure to seek advice on teaching evocation magic from the WC's best evocation wizard. Probably even pick up a copy of his book from Edinburgh for your new apprentice. A century is plenty of time for information to travel. We already saw some of Eb's writing with his full sets of journals. It's easy enough to take some time to write down some of your philosophies and thoughts on magic that you'd share with other wizards.
If you really believe it's a throwaway line, up to you. But so far you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary and this thread is for speculation. Read the books how you like, but some of us enjoy putting the puzzle together and finding the clues.
Also, Bob is a thousand year old being by WoJ, Bad Alias.There are contradicting WoJ about when and where Bob came from. I find that frustrating. Jim has suggested that Bob came from Etienne the Enchanter in much the same way Bonnie came from Harry. Etienne picked up the skull in medieval France. Bob says he has about 600 years of memory to sort through. He said he Evil Bob has 100 years worth of knowledge, but the timeline shows him with Kemmler for only 40 years or so.
There are contradicting WoJ about when and where Bob came from. I find that frustrating. Jim has suggested that Bob came from Etienne the Enchanter in much the same way Bonnie came from Harry. Etienne picked up the skull in medieval France. Bob says he has about 600 years of memory to sort through. He said he Evil Bob has 100 years worth of knowledge, but the timeline shows him with Kemmler for only 40 years or so.Bob's skull was made by Etienne the Enchanter in medieval France, but that's not the same thing as Bob. I don't think its contradictory, just tricky to parse.
Bob's skull was made by Etienne the Enchanter in medieval France, but that's not the same thing as Bob. I don't think its contradictory, just tricky to parse.When I said "Jim has suggested that Bob came from Etienne the Enchanter in much the same way Bonnie came from Harry" I wasn't talking about the skull. I was talking about Bob. Jim has said Etienne enchanted the skull too. Different statements.
Really weird thing that Evil Bob says.In addition to being prominent in the fight against Kemmler he's also publishing reasonably common books about magic as shown in Dead Beat. His style is no secret. I'm on team easter egg for this one.
When Harry is in Ghost Story, he is wrestling with Evil Bob and Harry has a staff. Evil Bob says of it "A simple tool, but serviceable. In McCoy's style"
When has Bob, or Evil Bob ever met McCoy? And which McCoy? Eb or Margaret?
I can't get it out of my head. It says some pretty bad stuff to me.
One other thing, did Evil Bob still have all of the knowledge and experience that regular Bob had? I think he did have those "memories" so he would have seen Harry making...how many staves over the years? Harry makes them as McCoy taught him. It seems likely that he would thoroughly know McCoy's style.No, he's specifically a split off of Bob's days with Kemmler.