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Messages - BrainFireBob

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196
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 20, 2020, 06:37:26 PM »
If you're going to use a phrase in an unconventional way without doing anything to disambiguate it from that conventional meaning and in fact using language that reinforces the conventional interpretation of the phrase, don't be surprised when someone responds to the conventional meaning.

The essential point of the post was that we were due for death of a mentor figure. Yes, that's normally the Hero's Journey archetype, but not necessarily. Focusing on the conventional interpretation to dismiss, instead of addressing the point, is the fallacy known as "logic chopping."

197
DF Spoilers / Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« on: October 20, 2020, 06:33:40 PM »
Most people are hostile to just explanations.

You considered that the term could be misconstrued to imply something incorrect. However, for someone to make that assumption they'd have to be either ESL or extremely uneducated. Disputing as you did implied you thought that about other forum members. This engenders irritation and negative pushback, which you encountered.

The term is defined independently of its components. A basketball court does not imply a throne room filled with hollow ball-shaped baskets. The terms have other meanings.

198
DF Spoilers / Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« on: October 19, 2020, 08:42:26 PM »
Sorry I was not clear. I agree with you, what Rudolph did was not a case of muscular memory. But there are other people in this thread who may disagree. For me, it was his excessively paranoia but still, his surprise it is a little weird. I thought TWG had made him shoot but I realized I was wrong because it would interfere with his free will. Still, conditions were created and probably He (They) guide the bullet, leading to an injury that gave her enough time for a goodbye without making his suffering too long.

Perhaps the surprise was because Rudolph knew he was pointing to another place and the bullet trajectory felt weird, as if in "Wanted".

He could have been aiming non fatal and was Cassius death-curse nudged

And there's two separate points being conflated:

What Rudolph did

What does muscle memory mean?

199
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab and Lara
« on: October 19, 2020, 08:40:16 PM »
Arjan, Ok, that explains it. I had totally forgotten about that. Wow, Harry was such a jerk there.

So, if being a virgin is a pre-requisite for being a Lady, Harry telling him that sex is bad for her is tragic in rereading. It would have saved her.

If being a virgin is not a prerequisite (as Lily and Sarissa apparently imply) then it is not relevant for the mantle thing.

And yes, the mantle clearly is concerned only about vaginal penetration. Still, will it be modern enough to accept it if the male wears a condom and if she uses a IUD?  :D

Non zero probability.

Academic question, can it recognize an old school functional castrati? Or a..tie on..toy?

200
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab and Lara
« on: October 19, 2020, 08:01:07 PM »
That falls among the dumbest things he has ever said.

His world, his physics.

I expect it's intended as part of his "the Fae are super old school, preChristian old school" reasoning.

201
Yes, but I believe there is a scene in Summer Knight where Mab does show up with the Knife in her belt or on her hip.  I will have to go back and double check but that passage sticks in my head.

When Harry tries to summon Lea, and Mab indicates she is "indisposed." Lea is on ice at that point, that is "indisposed."

202
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 19, 2020, 07:33:38 PM »
Not totally on his own, just entering a new phase.  In the new phase it looks like the Holy Knights and fatherhood are going to play a huge role.. So out Murphy, in Michael.  The Winter Court is becoming more important, so out White Council in Mab.. White Court seemingly more important, so out Thomas, in Lara..

Also a phrasing that works.

He's de facto challenging Marcone for Lord of Chicago, not Knight-Errant Champion of Chicago. Murphy was part of the story past. Harry is moving to a scale where preserving every Chicagoan- Murphy's scale- is out, and leading them into battle- where some will die- is in. Part of his "mini-Mab" arc.

203
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab and Lara
« on: October 19, 2020, 07:28:40 PM »
I agree with Dina, what does "technically" mean exactly?  It's kind of like being a "little bit" pregnant, ether you are or you aren't.. I know there are teenagers that discount having oral sex for example as having sex because there was no penetration...Exactly, but it is still sex, and then being a "virgin" depends on how narrowly or broadly you want to define the term.

Yep, and Mab and Jim have been clear on the pregnancy part being the risk and that a Lady with "good self control" can do "some things" with a quiescent Mantle.

Pretty strong implication the Mantle counts vaginal only

204
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 19, 2020, 07:25:36 PM »
How is it irrelevant?

You said that death of the mentor was due because of structure. Commenting on the fact that death of the mentor isn't part of the structure of the Hero's Journey, which is what people are usually referencing when they discuss the death of the mentor, is relevant.

Usually is the relevancy. It's time for Harry to fly on his own. He's alienating Ebenezer, Murphy died, etc.

205
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab and Lara
« on: October 19, 2020, 07:21:56 PM »
Technically? I don't remember that. Sounds a weird thing to say.
For a while I thought she had sex with Vincent the P.I. but apparently that was wrong. I don't remember exactly what is said in Cold Case, but I think she is and always have been a virgin.

Don't work with teen girls?

About 15 yesrs ago, many used it to indicate oral and/or anal, but not vaginal, intercourse. So, "technically".

206
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 19, 2020, 05:28:51 PM »
Structurally, the death of the mentor isn't part of the Hero's Journey. Also, basically everything could be a mentor. In my opinion, the Hero's Journey is so vague as to be useless as any sort of analytical framework.

Which is irrelevant to what I said. Harry needs to stand on his own merits without needing mentors.

207
DF Spoilers / Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« on: October 19, 2020, 04:33:27 PM »
so basically your defense here is because other people use the wrong words we should continue to use the wrong words? " observation. Animals with inaccurate names are everywhere in the animal kingdom, the starfish and the jellyfish are also not fish. A killer whale is actually not a whale at all but related to the dolphin, and a koala bear is not at all a bear. The horny toad"
Remember how words are just vessels for ideas? Well these words conveyed the original idea and are inherently wrong. They are a name proper sure, but so this to an idea and your going to do nothing productive unless it's your intention to spread misinformation. If I said I had read a great paper on spaghetti physics it would accurately explain what I was looking at and falsely identity what I'm talking about. nobody seriously interested in spaghetti mechanics call them that but casually claiming there exists anything of the sort is false.
 I'm having trouble with my math just now... What do two wrongs equal again..?🤔 negative, they are called wings because they correctly identity how they are used in a concept. Muscle memory does not correctly identity anything. Muscle tendon changing is not the same as creating the synapse for the action though the two are often trained in a similar fashion.
But I digress, I'm just winging it here.. 😉

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muscle memory

Stop trying to change the definition of term "muscle memory" to "memory in muscles," please.

It's incorrect, and poor parsing of language. Inverting muscle memory can mean your interpretation, memory belonging to muscles, or memory of muscles- remembering the muscle sequence without need to think through the actions. The latter pretty clearly is the etymology.

208
DF Spoilers / Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« on: October 19, 2020, 04:46:26 AM »
Wow this was a roller coaster of a thread.  Here is how I read the scene:

Once Murphy is shot and it sinks in.  A switch is thrown in Harry.  You can tell by the way he is talking.  They're trying to get him to stop and he's dismissing him with the same tone that someone would use to say "Just let me wash my hands, then we can eat."  That is the emotionless logic of a sociopath who treats murdering Rudolph has a banal task he needs to complete.  The holy lightsaber, which Harry could pass his flesh through previously while feeling just a warm buzzing sensation now sears his flesh as if he is pure evil, which he is that that moment.  The sword then has the same affect on harry as it does on the monsters.  Once Harry snaps out of it, Butters could have pushed the lightsaber through him and it wouldn't have harmed in again.  Harry is going to have another scar on his arm that reminds him not to become a monster.  The sulfur smell was the signal that Harry was seriously in the wrong, I don't think it has anything to do with an outsider influencing Rudolph.  It has everything to do with Harry being evil in that moment and the sword telling him a resounding "No."

Exactly.

The swords exist to allow free will choice. Especially, they exist to neutralize the Denarians to allow their hosts free will.

In this case, Harry's free will is compromised by his Mantle. The sword gives him a shock to allow free willed choice. It's what the KotC are for.

209
Right, but what she said and what I've been reading, some of the people that wanted her to stay the non-superpower assisted person now want her, now that she's dead, to come back as a powered up Valkyrie. Can't have it both ways. Leave her be for now and have her come back at the end all healed up and ready for a fight.

Oh, and to push some buttons in a laugh, she comes back having started a physical relationship with Hendricks.

A couple of people are saying, in this thread, she could still eventually promote to Valkyrie.

Most of the argument is about Gard's previous offer of becoming a security consultant, and whether that was code for assuming a Valkyrie mantle.

Murphy refused Gard's offer, but when she died it was prime Einherjar material.

So, Gard offered to let her go to Officer Training School, Murphy refused, but she got drafted as a grunt. The implication is that mortals ascebd to become Valkyries, but only the dead can become Einherjar.

210
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: October 19, 2020, 04:27:25 AM »
The time line may be off, or in the earlier short stories Harry is wrong, because I was rereading some of the short stories while waiting for Battle Ground to come out and in one of them Harry describes Murphy and says she is about five years older than himself.

Correct. And Murphy was a mentor to him in terms of sparring, survival, and as an investigator.

Structurally, death of a mentor is due. Michael, another mentor figure, was injured but not eliminated in a prior book.

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