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Messages - LostInTime

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106
DF Spoilers / Re: How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 26, 2021, 01:00:48 PM »
Came up with another fae-legal method. Mab trades away the last favor to another fae (Leanansidhe?). She then orders that fae to command Harry to kill someone he loves. All nice and fae-legal. Harry's criteria for accepting the mantle was that Mab not order him to hurt someone he loves.

107
DF Spoilers / Re: I am certain Lea is Harry's mother.
« on: April 25, 2021, 02:09:33 AM »
Fix is an undeclared changeling and is the Summer Knight. Likewise, Lily was an undeclared changeling and Summer Knight and then Summer Lady.

108
DF Spoilers / Re: I am certain Lea is Harry's mother.
« on: April 24, 2021, 12:58:34 AM »
WOJ is that Leanansidhe was Mab's Jenny Greenteeth and started out as a dew drop fairy or something similar. She grew in power and influence as Mab grew. Mab was Winter Lady and became Winter Queen in 1066-ish. So, Lea's been around a touch too long to be Margaret.

Found here. https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/

109
DF Spoilers / Re: How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 24, 2021, 12:52:10 AM »
I'll throw this out there too. Harry owes Mab a favor, plus, he's the Winter Knight, which means he owes all of the Winter Queens unlimited favors, excepting only that he doesn't have to accept any that would hurt the ones he loves.

He also owes Molly a favor from bargaining for the ring in Peace Talks. She warned him to not make an open-ended deal with the fae, but Harry's is remarkably dim in foresight.

Harry owed Lea a debt, and somehow, Mab wound up owning that debt. It's possible she ordered Lea to surrender that debt to her. We don't know what went on behind the scenes. Mab could do the same with Harry's debt to Molly.

Harry's favor to Mab is a conditional, he doesn't have to accept the favor asked. But Molly's debt has no conditions attached to it.

110
DF Spoilers / Re: How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 22, 2021, 12:50:33 AM »
Think of the fae queens as a hostile life form. They're going to make a weakness appear as a strength. If they are blocked from doing something directly, they'll find a workaround or bargain with another entity with no such restriction to do the deed for them.

111
DF Spoilers / Re: How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 21, 2021, 08:18:15 PM »
To say nothing of the fact that she could always order Molly to kill Harry. Harry might not have any choice but to kill in self-defense.

My theory is that there's another influence outside the fae courts that stops the fae queens from killing mortals.

112
DF Spoilers / Re: How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 21, 2021, 06:53:19 PM »
Didn't Mab agree to the condition that she wouldn't make him harm those he cares for?
She won't tell the Winter Knight to kill the people Harry loves. Harry Dresden, Wizard, owes her a favor, free of encumbering conditions. According to the fae rules, if Harry wanted that sort of condition attached to the favors, he should have specified it when the conditions of the debt were arranged.

Never deal with the fae.

113
DF Spoilers / How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 21, 2021, 06:09:36 PM »
Forgive me if this is kind of obvious, but...

Harry made a deal with Lea for power prior to the series beginning.

In Summer Knight, Lea traded the debt to Mab. Mab and Harry negotiated the debt could be settled by Harry performing three services. Mab states that the first favor is to find the killer of the Summer Knight.

At the end of Summer Knight, Mab offered to cancel the debt in exchange for Harry taking up the Winter Knight mantle. Harry refused, two more favors were still owed.

In Small Favor, Mab tried to collect on the second favor. Harry balked. Mab again offered to cancel the debt in exchange for Harry taking up the Winter Knight mantle. Harry performed the favor, finding Marcone. At this point, Harry still owed Mab one favors.

In Changes, Harry approaches Mab with a deal to accept the Winter Knight mantle in exchange for her healing his broken back, give him power to rescue his daughter, and that she not force him to kill anyone he loved. Harry fails to mention anything about the third and final favor.

Mab can't order the Winter Knight to kill, say, Molly. (Like she's ordered the Winter Knight to kill Maeve) But she could require Harry Dresden to kill the Winter Lady in order to fulfill the third favor.

Sword of Damocles, indeed.


114
DF Spoilers / Re: Dresden and Lara
« on: April 19, 2021, 04:38:33 PM »
The question isn't whether or not Lara can control her demon. The question is whether or not Harry can control his mantle.

115
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 18, 2021, 02:35:14 PM »
Let's agree that Uriel is immortal as long as he retains his grace.

Harry's already been halfway to the other side, a soul is immortal.

Being unaging and naturally deathless is not the same as immortal. Mab is not immortal. She was not born immortal. She became immortal when she took up a fae mantle.

I'll refer you back to Bob's words in Cold Days. After about a decade, the person is lost behind the mantle. We've seen glimmers of this with Molly. Maeve entered Harry's birthday party bucky bare-assed. Molly did her "Welcome to the Jungle" entrance in Battle Ground clad only in frost. I'll be interested to see if Molly starts taking on Maeve's crazy, cock-tease personality.

Mab has been the Winter Queen for almost a thousand years. The mortal Mab can only peek out from behind the mantle on the Summer Solstice, when Winter has its weakest hold on her. She is mostly mantle at this point. Very little of Mab remains, on a day-to-day basis. But there has to be something left. Perhaps that's why the prior Summer Mother resigned?

In any event, Butcher's going to tell this tale sooner or later.

116
DF Spoilers / Re: Dresden and Lara
« on: April 18, 2021, 02:24:22 PM »
Pay attention to detail though. It's sealed with the kiss. If they can't kiss, then it doesn't count. And I doubt that them getting married will get rid of his protection. I've read the short. That was a marriage that was sabotaged. Will was giving his heart to someone who he thought was the love of his life. The marriage between Harry and Lara isn't a marriage of love. They know what they are getting with the other. A business partner, not a spouse.
Lara can take the hit to break the protection.

The feelings don't matter, it's the vows that matter.

117
DF Spoilers / Re: Dresden and Lara
« on: April 17, 2021, 11:49:23 PM »
After the wedding Harry will no longer have protection from Lara. The wedding vows are a spell that removes true love protection. See Something Borrowed for confirmation.

118
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 16, 2021, 07:28:13 PM »
I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier. The tell to the truth that fae queens are mortals still is in Peace Talks.

Molly says she could cross the circle. But she'd leave the fae mantle behind. Since it's much more invasive than Harry's mantle, what came out on the other side wouldn't be 'right'. This makes sense since her mantle conveys immortality, and Harry's doesn't.

In Cold Days, Maeve was killed on Halloween, despite being an 'immortal'. Kringle comments later that Halloween is a day when mantles can be put on or discarded. It's the day when Vaddrung dons his Kringle mantle. That means on at least two days of the year, there's a width between the mortals wearing them and the mantles. Why two days you ask? Because Mab gave Harry a conditional suggestion in Battle Ground that if she should die that night, then Harry should kill Molly. It was the Summer Solstice, a cosmologically important day of the year. A day when 'the stars were aligned'.

The mantles are immortal. They convey that immortality to the mortals wearing them. But there are days when that protection is not absolute.

The fae queens are mortal.

119
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 15, 2021, 01:14:45 PM »
Choice plays such a big part in mortal affairs, that stripping someone of their free will by saddling them with a mantle seems sure to draw down the response of The White God.

Especially if we find out at the end that it was Hecate evading TWG's edict to give up their immortality or withdraw from the mortal world. My theory is that she did both, and didn't. We'll find out when Mother Winter (Hecate?) spills the beans.

120
DF Spoilers / Re: Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 14, 2021, 10:50:16 PM »

No, she was groomed, Mab admitted that, Molly's decisions had something to do with that. 
The mantle jumped into Molly, it didn't jump into Murphy who was also nearby.
The mantle could have also jumped back to Mab. As Rhuel's Summer Knight mantle jumped back to Aurora when Rhuel was murdered by Slate.

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