Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Topics - LostInTime

Pages: [1] 2
1
DF Spoilers / Did Molly teleport
« on: February 16, 2024, 08:50:14 PM »
One of the ways Jim loves to hide things is by showing us the effect and then explaining the cause in an urelated fashion later.

So, at the beginning of Battle Ground, Molly disappears from the docks in a blast of cold air. The Winter Knight feels the cold. Major forces were being thrown around.

Later, Marcshiel teleports during the fight with Ethniu near the lake. Harry is gobsmacked and goes into a long monologue about how awesome this is and how much skill it takes, even when both points are within easy viewing distances.

The thing is, if Molly had opened a way to the Never Never, it would have been visible and Harry's seen plenty of those. But because he didn't see her disappear here and reappear there, he never put two and two together to realize that it was a teleport. (Our hero is not all that bright.)

Is this a clue that Molly is as far above Marcshiel as Marcshiel is above Harry?

2
DF Spoilers / The fae slaves
« on: January 06, 2023, 01:43:44 AM »
I finally figured out what bothers me about the fae queen mantle wearers. At least for Sarissa and Molly, the other queens we don't know how they came to bear the mantles. Maybe they volunteered, maybe they didn't.

But Molly and Sarissa are slaves.

A slave cannot choose their own destiny. They are not free to leave at any time of their own free will. And before you get on about Butcher's past choices limiting your current choices, let's apply that to slave-held people in the past. Did their decision to draw water from a certain river lead to them being captured and sold on to slaveholding people?

They may be given power, but they're still in a gilded cage. Worse, since they're immortal, it's an eternal cage. They can't even easily escape it in death.

3
DF Spoilers / Who is Thomas talking to?
« on: January 13, 2022, 09:19:42 PM »
Harry cut off all other prisoners not in the same confinement mode from communicating with Thomas. There's only one prisoner before Thomas in 'contemplation' mode. The British guy.

4
DF Spoilers / Implications of Molly's Apartment
« on: November 30, 2021, 09:02:13 PM »
Is Molly's apartment one of the ways she stays human?
Molly Carpenter owns that apartment as payment from the Svartalves for services on her part. The Svartalves are not fae and don't play by fae rules or definitions of identity. The Winter Lady may enter the apartment as long as she has good intentions toward the owner. But, Molly Carpenter =/= The Winter Lady under fae rules. Just as Kringle =/= Vadderung.
We've never seen Molly in her apartment since she became the Winter Lady. Harry dropped her off there in Peace Talks, but other than that it's only mentioned that she breezed through on brief stops to pet Mouse, play with Maggie and share some sunny chat. (Which sounds like what a teen/twentysomething would do to not make her family worry.)
Perhaps that's one of the reasons that Mab keeps Molly so busy? So that she won't have an opportunity to retreat to her apartment.
After Harry made a bargain with her, she had the excuse to go there to complete the obligation of the bargain, then she was back to the marathon of building up Winter's forces.
So, when she's inside her apartment does the Winter Lady take a back seat and the mortal Molly get to come out to play?

5
DF Spoilers / Mab chose Molly
« on: October 14, 2021, 01:51:58 PM »
Mab chose Molly.

In the grip of insomnia last night I went back and re-read the chapter in Peace Talks where Harry summons Molly and this bit jumped out at me. It was easy to miss given all the bombshells with the summoning and Molly's tenuous mortal status.

Quote
…Molly probably wasn’t going to forgive herself for assisting in what had amounted to a very complicated near suicide. There’d been a lot of fallout, on every conceivable scale. Very little of it had been Molly’s fault, directly or otherwise, but she’d been a mover on that scene, and she probably felt at least as bad as I did about it, and I’d been way more in the middle of things.

And, being a wizard, I felt guilty as hell for walking her into that. I hadn’t had much choice, if I wanted to save my daughter’s life, but thought the cost was worthy, it still had to be paid-and Molly had laid down cold, hard cash.

So cold and so hard that Mab had wound up choosing her to be the new Winter Lady, in fact.

Suddenly I wondered if maybe I hadn’t been hard enough on myself. I mean, hell, at least when I’d become the Winter Knight, I’d made a choice. My back had been to a wall and my options had all sucked, but I’d at least sought out my bargain with Mab.

Molly hadn’t been consulted, and Mab’s policy on dissenting opinion was crystalline: Deal with it or die.

Of course, inveterate dissenters like myself, it created a pretty simple counterpolicy for when I was tired of Mab’s crap: Deal with it or kill me. Mab was a lot of things, but irrational wasn’t one of them, and as long as it was easier to put up with me than replace me, we had attained a state of balance. I imagined that Molly had come to similar arrangements…
There’s so much to unpack here. But, first and foremost, MAB CHOSE MOLLY TO BE THE WINTER LADY.

Which means everything we’ve been told or shown regarding succession of the lady mantles is either wrong, incomplete, or the person telling us how it works has been lied to. Unreliable narrators is the rule instead of the exception in DF. Fae are information hoarders. People wearing fae mantles must behave as fae would, so they are obligated to hoard information and not release it unless you back them into a corner and ask them three times. They get a bit testy about that.

Now, that opens the door that Titania may have chosen Lily to be the first replacement Summer Lady. If the queen gets to choose from available vessels for fae power, Sarissa being chosen as the Summer Lady can only be viewed as revenge for Aurora’s death. After all, Mab did choose the person who caused Aurora’s death as her Winter Knight.

So, perhaps in a way, Molly brought herself to Mab’s attention by helping Harry arrange his death? Lea instructing her during her year as the Ragged Lady might have helped prepare her to be a vessel for fae power, but I think she was already on the board. Besides, due to Lea’s obligation, she would have been bound to instruct Molly. Molly made a cold, hard decision, against her emotional human interests, to help Harry suicide. That really does ring of Winter.

Mab could have chosen Murphy for the mantle. There’s no age requirement that we know of. Molly may have been technically virginal, but Lily certainly wasn’t since Slate had raped her. Murphy wasn’t a virgin, but she had never had a child, so she would have technically been allowable by the flawed rules we have been shown.

And let’s face it, veiled or not, there’s no way an apprentice wizard’s veils would have been good enough to conceal her from Mab, who in terms of age, experience, power and sneakiness is leagues above Molly in Cold Days.

So, when Maeve died, Mab had a choice and she chose Molly.

Mind. Blown.

6
DF Spoilers / Kill Molly Carpenter
« on: October 06, 2021, 12:28:52 AM »
On Page 219 of BG, Mab orders Harry, if she dies that night, to "kill Molly Carpenter".

Given the events in Good People, the real bone of contention between Mab and Molly is Molly's continued humanity. Mab thinks that you need to be Spock to be a good Winter Queen.

Mab didn't order Harry to kill the Winter Lady or the new Winter Queen. Because having a neophyte lady and queen would be just as bad for Winter as having a queen that still clings to her mortality.

She was ordering Harry to make Molly as inhuman as possible, to make her fully fae, in order to be what Mab envisions a good queen should be.

Jim has stated elsewhere that Mab can't lie, but she can be wrong. I hope that's the case, here.

Jim has also stated that Molly's coming story is not a happy one. Which, to put it frankly, sucks.

7
DF Spoilers / Margarets
« on: September 29, 2021, 03:30:42 PM »
Margaret (Maggie) Dresden, Margaret (Molly) Carpenter, Margaret Dresden (LeFay). Maiden, Mother, Crone?

IMHO, the nicknames are to distract you from the fact that the most important women in Harry's life are all named Margaret.

In fact, since Madge if a diminutive form of Margaret, I'd be completely unsurprised if Mab's proper name wasn't Margaret.

8
DF Spoilers / Double check me on Marcone's progression
« on: September 22, 2021, 11:51:35 PM »
In Storm Front, Marcone is an established underground boss with construction, gambling rackets, drugs and presumably, prostitution. Harry Dresden is Chicago's only practicing wizard and a consultant for Chicago Police Department's Special Investigations unit. On Dresden's way back from consulting on a crime scene where one of Marcone's henchmen was assissinated using magic, Marcone swoops down in his limo, picks up Dresden and takes his measure in a soulgaze without flinching and tries to warn him off the case.

This doesn't strike me as the actions of someone who is completely ignorant of magic.

First, iron-hearted or not, a soulgaze is supposed to be a moment of shocking intimacy.

Second, the reader is ignorant that Tommy Tom is involved with Victor Sells' rituals to create Three-Eye at the point where he's dead and introduced as one of Marcone's henchmen.

Dresden shuts down Sells, who dies in the process and cannot turn witness or testify to the White Council or the Chicago PD who else was involved in the Three-Eye ring.

In Fool Moon, Marcone's business partner and one of his henchmen wind up dead at the hands of a werewolf.

Harry, while talking to a demon for information on the Loup-Garou, guess that Marcone has his hands on a pack of werewolves. There are only two werewolf packs in Chicago, the Alphas, who would never work for Marcone, and the Street Wolves, a gang of lycanthropes, humans possessed by wild spirits.

Then Marcone, dues to shady business dealing winds up in the crosshairs of the Loup-Garou.

In book 5, Death Masks, John Marcone pops up again after being missing during Grave Peril and Summer Knight. Marcone has Miss Sigrun Gard at his beck and call as a bodyguard. Later, Marcone gains possession of the Shroud.

Does this strike anybody as the actions of a man who is introduced to the reality of magic in Storm Front? I think there's backstory on Marcone that we don't have yet, but he was already looking for a way to exploit magic for his own prestige and power.

9
DF Spoilers / Re-reading and this jumped out at me
« on: September 22, 2021, 01:39:13 AM »
At the end of BG, Harry goes with Molly to the Carpenter's house for Sunday dinner. When Michael drops the bomb that he knows she's the Winter Lady, he then expands on the preparation they've done to get ready for Molly to come over. They've broken out her Grandmother's silverware.

In Fool Moon, Bob is explaining about different kinds of werewolves. Loup Garou are cursed to be consumed by a wild spirit. But it's not a run of the mill curse. You've got to be really powerful. A major sorcerer, a demon lord or a faerie queen. And, the only way to stop them is with inherited silver.

Do we know a faerie queen with inherited silver? Why, yes. Yes we do.

10
DF Spoilers / Harry actually should be out of the White Council
« on: September 21, 2021, 02:55:03 AM »
But not for the reasons they stated.

So, the White Council kicked Harry out for slaughtering the Fomor servitors (technically human). There were witnesses, and even though the servitors would have gleefully killed Harry, the self-defense exemption wasn’t allowed. I guess this was a fig leaf for his expulsion. Whether or not that was to allow him more freedom of action to be a destroyer or not, we’ll have to wait to find out.

Still, under the fourth law, he should have been out. The fourth law of magic forbids the binding of any other being against its will. Harry bound Ethniu. Although, there was no witness, beyond Marcone. Despite the fact that every other magical heavyweight there had already been flattened. Despite the fact that the battle was still in question and all hinged on Ethniu being there to bolster the Fomor offense. By binding Ethniu, Harry should have legitimately been kicked out.

Way back in Storm Front, Harry wouldn’t bind a demon that he had wrested control of away from Victor Sells. Harry didn’t know it, but Morgan was watching and would have killed him had he bound the demon to his will.

And, just for a cherry on top of the sundae, later that evening, Harry bound Molly with a debt owed to the Warden of Demonreach. Molly herself said she was bound. It doesn’t matter that it’s A-okay with the fae that you bind them.

11
DF Spoilers / Battle Ground end scenes
« on: September 15, 2021, 05:18:43 AM »
Man, listening to the audio book of Battle Ground and different stuff is sticking out that I just zoomed past while reading.
Here's another. It really stuck out at me in the audio book, but I zoomed past it reading.

Quote
“We have to answer for this,” I said quietly. “We have to help. The wounded.” I didn’t look back at the dark opening in the base of the Bean. “The dead. We owe them. You know I’m right.”
“That could be a tough sell,” she said in quiet answer.
“I’m not asking,” I said. “My fealty is a two-way street. I have gone above and beyond my duty to Winter, right in front of God and everybody, by doing what no one else could. Now Winter will respond in kind, by helping as no one else can. You will help them. Every one of them. Do it in secret, no connections. We’ve interfered in their lives enough. This will happen.”
The Winter Lady gave me a very long, very intent stare.
And then she shivered and bowed her head.
“Already you have bound a Titan. And now a Queen. Sometimes,” Molly whispered, “I’m very proud to be your friend, Harry. And sometimes you frighten me.”
Sometimes I frightened the Winter Lady. I shook my head.

The fae CAN'T leave a debt unsettled. Just like Mab had to repay Waldo for removing the rebar from her neck, even if it is held against her as a favor, the debt has to be acknowledged and balanced.

When Harry said he went above and beyond his duties as the Winter Knight, he wasn't exaggerating. Harry Dresden couldn't bind a titan. The Winter Knight couldn't bind a titan. The Warden of Demonreach can and did.

Winter has no hold on the Warden of Demonreach.

Winter owes the Warden for binding Ethniu, in support of the accords, and Harry collected. Molly has no choice in paying for the injured and the dead. Just as she has no choice in collecting on the favor Harry owes her for making the glamour he used to evade Eb.

Which puts a different spin on Molly presenting the envelope to Harry on Christmas Eve at the Carpenters. She's not giving a gift, she's settling a debt. Which clearly underlines Harry as an unreliable narrator.

Which, in turn, expands on the unease Molly felt when she left the house in The Good People. She isn't human any longer, and she thinks Harry knows it. She thinks Harry is the same as she is because he so casually bound her with fae logic and Winter's debt to the Warden of Demonreach.

12
DF Spoilers / Twisty Fae Logic; Molly Versus Lara
« on: July 21, 2021, 02:08:07 AM »
So, Mab has tasked Molly to make certain Harry and Lara are seen in public in advance of the wedding to cement the alliance between The White Court and Winter. She’s also in charge of planning the wedding, supposedly to help her build self-control and help her get over her love of Harry.

Molly, never one long on self-control, being an empath and generally having strong emotions, this will wreck her. But Mab is kind of a ‘what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’ kind of teacher. She will probably order Molly that Winter and The White Court need to be allied and the wedding has to happen and be consummated in order to cement the alliance.

Mab making that order would guarantee that Molly couldn’t do anything to interfere with the wedding. Until the marriage is consummated. Harry having sex with another woman isn’t that big of a deal. She knows that Harry had sex with Susan, has to suspect that Harry and Murphy were intimate. Whether or not she knew about Elaine is up to conjecture. It’s being married that will kill Molly.

But, like all marriages, it’s only until ‘death do us part’.

Molly, not being able to do anything against Lara herself, might be tempted to bargain with other powers to assassinate Lara. But, being allied with Winter, any attack against The White Court would be construed under the Unseelie Accords as an attack against Winter.

Unless it came from The White Court.

So, Molly might bargain with House Skavis or House Malvora to arrange an assassination. But what high-value bargaining chip does Molly possess that could get them to take out the leader of The White Court?

Harry owes Molly a favor. Molly doesn’t need the favor. Being the Winter Lady she already has unlimited favors from the Winter Knight. But, it’s a powerful bargaining chip, and might be enough to get a hit on Lara.

Or Molly might bargain a favor from the Winter Lady for the job.

In any event, Lara goes down. Does Harry, as prince of The White Court and Winter Knight then become leader of the wamps? Does the alliance with Winter go out the window with the marriage of alliance officially over?

This one has that kind of wormy logic that fae are famous for and it might be another step for Molly into becoming fully fae.

What think you?

13
DF Spoilers / Since Changes, has Harry lied?
« on: May 11, 2021, 10:16:22 PM »
Subject says it all. Has Harry lied since he accepted the mantle? And I mean that in the fae way. Has he told an outright mistruth. Not from a certain point of view. Not a lie of omission. Not agreeing with someone's misstatement or misperception. And outright mistruth?

The fae can't lie, but has Mab incorporated not lying into Winter Law? Since at least two of her vassals are mortal and have free will, and Maeve was Nfected and could lie despite possibly being fae.

14
DF Spoilers / How Mab gets Harry to kill loved ones
« on: April 21, 2021, 06:09:36 PM »
Forgive me if this is kind of obvious, but...

Harry made a deal with Lea for power prior to the series beginning.

In Summer Knight, Lea traded the debt to Mab. Mab and Harry negotiated the debt could be settled by Harry performing three services. Mab states that the first favor is to find the killer of the Summer Knight.

At the end of Summer Knight, Mab offered to cancel the debt in exchange for Harry taking up the Winter Knight mantle. Harry refused, two more favors were still owed.

In Small Favor, Mab tried to collect on the second favor. Harry balked. Mab again offered to cancel the debt in exchange for Harry taking up the Winter Knight mantle. Harry performed the favor, finding Marcone. At this point, Harry still owed Mab one favors.

In Changes, Harry approaches Mab with a deal to accept the Winter Knight mantle in exchange for her healing his broken back, give him power to rescue his daughter, and that she not force him to kill anyone he loved. Harry fails to mention anything about the third and final favor.

Mab can't order the Winter Knight to kill, say, Molly. (Like she's ordered the Winter Knight to kill Maeve) But she could require Harry Dresden to kill the Winter Lady in order to fulfill the third favor.

Sword of Damocles, indeed.


15
DF Spoilers / Are Fae Queens still mortals?
« on: April 13, 2021, 12:38:45 AM »
I’m not sure I’ve gotten all of this sorted out in my head, so I’m going to lay it out here. Feel free to jump on and correct any inaccuracies.
Back in pre-history, The White God told all of the other gods to vamoose. Give up your immortality and live on, or keep it and have nothing more to do with mortals.

Someone, probably Hecate, maybe the Norns, instead of giving up their mortality, sponsored the fae. The fae, who had historically been the foot soldiers defending the Outer Gates, the keepers of the Outer Gates got a promotion. Their sponsor split their immortality into at least 8 mantles, 6 immortal, two not. Set up the two fae courts, one, Winter, to lead the defense of the Outer Gates, and one, Summer, to defend reality against the Winter court.

But, and this is important, The two tripartite divisions that are the fae queens, are still immortal. And The White God’s edict still holds true, their power was ordered to stop messing with humanity, so they cannot truck with mortals. In Summer Knight it’s described as fae queens cannot directly interfere with or kill anyone who isn’t attached to the courts through birthright or bargain. They they can do so indirectly with trickery, guile or glamor. Mortals, however, can still deal with them, since free will trumps everything. Free will allows mortals to deal with Outsiders, it certainly allows them to deal with fae.

It’s my theory, although not confirmed, that the fae queens must always be mortal when endowed with a mantle. Titania and Mab are sisters. Mab revealed to Harry that she was mortal once. Logically, that means so was Titania. At best they were changelings, but unless they’d chosen fae before they were endowed with their mantles, they would still be considered mortal. Aurora, Maeve and Sarissa were their daughters, arguably making them changelings, but if my theory that follows is correct, that’s not so cut and dried. Lily was a changeling, but she hadn’t selected her fae heritage yet when Aurora endowed her with the Summer Knight mantle and turned her into a statue. When Aurora died, She was endowed with the Summer Lady mantle, while still a mortal, albeit one wearing a mantle. Molly, of course, was fully mortal when she was endowed with the Winter Lady mantle.

The mantles that are not immortal, went to the knights, the hatchet men for the fae courts. These are mortals who the fae can sick on other mortals, to kill or hurt. Because the fae queens are constrained by The White God’s edict. Sure, the knights also will bring the pain to the fae, but what sets them apart from the other fae mantle wearers is their ability to kill mortals.

Run of the mill fae can interact with, kidnap, kill mortals. We saw that all the way back in Restoration of Faith with the troll. Jenny Greenteeth would have killed Billy and allowed Georgia to sleep on. Phobophages, Malks, Rawbones, Trolls, you name it, they have all threatened or outright killed mortals all the way through the books.

But the fae queens can’t.

In Summer Knight, Slate, in cahoots with Aurora, kills Ronald Rheul, the Summer Knight. No problem there, knights are supposed to kill mortals. Aurora buys it at the hands of Harry’s minions. Essentially her death is at Harry’s hands. He might have been doing the slicing and dicing with the bane, but with fae logic, he was responsible. The run of the mill fae that wielded the box cutters, again, had no issue killing her.
Loyd Slate’s betrayal of Mab is also revealed in Summer Knight. But, instead of killing him and allowing the Knight’s mantle to flow back to her, she takes him prisoner and tortures him for years.

In Changes, Mab doesn’t kill Loyd Slate, Harry does.

Fast forward to Cold Days. Harry believes that Mab is trying to kill him over 77 days. But most of those attempts are through predators, traps or fae. She only tries once with a pillow and once with a shotgun. Harry, pre-Winter Knight, could have protected himself from a shotgun.
Mab orders Harry to kill Maeve because Mab believes Maeve is Nfected. Mab had previously cured Leanansidhe of Nfection. So, why didn’t Mab just do the same thing to Maeve, her own daughter in order to spare her life?

Because, even if Maeve was wearing a fae queen mantle, she’s still mortal. The mantle makes her into a high sidhe. The mantle is what doesn’t allow her to lie, normally. The mantle gives her the vulnerability to the bane. Just as the mantle endows her with immortality. And Kringle tells us later that mantles can be worn, exchanged or discarded. Which would imply that in order to exchange or discard a mantle, you have to possess free will.

The Nfection counters the mantle and allows Maeve to lie. It also allows her to kill Lily. Maeve is, in turn, killed by Karin.
In Peace Talks and Battle Ground, the Fomor servitors don’t get the mortal protection because they are involved with the Fomor, who are involved with the fae courts. Molly, Maeve, Sarissa and Titania are allowed to kill them with impunity.

In The Good People, Mab encourages Molly to let her mortality die. Molly responds by getting in Mab's face. Instead of bouncing her head off a solid object as Mab has done with Harry in the past, she accedes to Molly's wishes and lets her be.

I can’t think of any time in any of the books or short stories where a fae queen has killed or injured a mortal that is not involved in some way with the fae courts, either directly or through the Unseelie Accords. I think there's a strong possibility that the fae queens, with the possible exception of the only original queen, Mother Winter, may all have been, and still are, mortal.

Comments? Corrections? Amplifications? Thoughts?

Pages: [1] 2