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Messages - Yuillegan

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31
A more recent WOJ leaves it ambiguous about lower-order angels. Archangels being top-tier are not though - I specifically think this was to in relation to whether Lucifer had been infected by Nemesis, and Jim was shutting that down. It seems the Prince of Darkness is beyond such things, and is evil for his own reasons.

That said, I could understand if regular angels simply thought they were immutable. Same for all immortals.

The point being, Nemesis breaks the rules about immutability because it is so powerful (being a Walker of the Outside - I use that phrasing because Jim does most recently, which suggests being a Walker is more powerful than a normal Outsider). But Archangels seem to be just as powerful so perhaps that's why Nemesis can't infect them.

Ethniu herself might not have been infected by Nemesis (assuming she could) and I doubt she bowed her head to any being in the last few decades or centuries even. That said, Nemesis says the Outsiders "unleashed the primal forces of your Creation against you" - that is for sure Ethniu. Ethniu being an original member of Creation (perhaps even proceeding it, depending on how you look at it).

I'm pretty sure there was a WOJ that, at least, archangels aren't susceptible to Nemesis because their nature is immutable.  Maybe he wasn't speaking to the lower orders of angels on that point because he just wanted to keep readers guessing, but the omission seems striking.

On the other hand, it's not impossible that some of the Fallen - being treacherous by nature - might make a calculated decision to go over to the other side for rewards under the new Outsider order, rather than being compelled by Nemesis.  Or the infection might be of the host rather than the Fallen.

Regarding Namshiel though, I think he's the misdirect, with Tessa and/or Rosanna framing him as the Denarian turncoat.  Marcone isn't an innate talent, or at least he's a very minor one if he has any juice at all - most of what he's doing relies on Namshiel's power. All it would have taken to ensure Nemesis' success in BG would have been for Namshiel to turn off the tap at the crucial moment.  That suggest that while Namshiel is still a dick, he's acting on his own purposes rather than the Outsiders'.

As for Arctis Tor, we don't actually have Mab's reasoning for believing he was the attacker (for that matter, she didn't actively confirm Harry's guess that he was, either, she just stayed silent to it). But I don't think it would be beyond Tessa's abilities to cast a disguise that would pass for Namshiel so long as she didn't get too close to Mab.  Just choose a spiny battle form instead of her usual one - or even cast a high quality illusion of one - fry some foot soldiers from a distance, and boom, you've got a patsy set up even if the attack fails.

Besides, on all the other occasions we've seen Namshiel fight, he seems to have a preference for more esoteric forms of magic over raw fire - I suspect it's an egotistical streak.  I suppose it's possible the attacker really was Namshiel and he was just resorting to crude fire because it's a good counter to lots of Winter troops, but it seems more compelling that someone less talented was posing as Namshiel.
Agree with pretty much all of this.

I am curious how Namshiel allows his hosts to become such powerful sorcerers so quickly. From what I understand, the Fallen can't really given you anything you don't already have. They just show you how to tap into power you already have and nurture it. That said, Jim has been very inconsistent on the Denarians over the series. Certainly early on they seemed to be super-powered terminators. It used to be that it took decades if not centuries to turn a minor talent into a major one (I think that's said in Death Masks). Yet Marcone in a few short years (half a decade or so) is doing more complicated sorcery than Harry. He might not be as strong as Harry, but he seems WAY stronger than he should be. Which makes me wonder if Marcone had untapped talent or if Namshiel is simply understands sorcery so well he can transform any talent into a powerful being very quickly (perhaps even has special gifts in this regard).

I do really quite like the idea of someone setting up Namshiel for Mab to be angry at (along with the other Denarians) and Marcone paying the price, despite neither he nor Namshiel actually being involved. I am not saying it's actually what happened, but it would make for compelling reading.

They are I believe the same thing, the Outsiders split when they disagreed with creation, the Fallen split over the rise of humanity.

In that case the Hosts of the Fallen are already nemfected.
Do you believe Angels, Fallen and Outsiders are actually all the same beings? And you must also then include other primordial spirits that then became known as gods and monsters that existed before Creation began. Interesting idea, thinking of them all as simply different factions. And could well be correct. That said, Outsiders do seem to have a qualitative difference to every other being. But perhaps that just because they live Outside. I mean, you have to be right to some degree. Any being that proceeded the beginning of all Creation (the creation of the multiverse) is sort-of an Outsider, because that seems to be all there was Before Creation. Although it wasn't Outside "back then" it simply was everything that was.

Not sure it's what Jim has written. But I don't mind the idea at all.

I suspect this is the case because I don't think the fallen can be Nemfected directly.

Remember the Winter Lady wasn't infected (the mantle) rather the host was infected. Killing the host removed the Nemfection (or Molly is Nemfected...).
Keep in mind that the Outsiders didn't want Ethniu to win, they wanted her to do damage and distract Harry so he would let one of them into the Well... the plan REQUIRES Harry to ultimately win and when Marcone could have turned traitor to let Ethniu win... the Outsiders wanted Ethniu to lose. So while I agree that Marcone and Namshiel are NOT Nemfected, I don't think this proves anything.
This can't be.  All the outsiders work together (as near as the council can tell) with one will.

If the Outsiders were originally Angels and they split from the white god during creation and then later a second group of Angels split from the white god because he favored humans (with free will) they would be two distinct groups with two distinct goals and thoughts (as indicated by them splitting over different issues and at different times), they could cooperate the same as a host and Denarian can cooperate, but the fallen would not be Outsiders any more than Uriel and his crew are Outsiders... they would be three groups of Angels (Outsiders, Fallen, and Angels).

I agree that it's probably more likely the host is infected rather than the Fallen. But it wasn't so long ago on this very forum (and just about every other Jim Butcher discussion forum) prior to Battle Ground being released that most people firmly believed mortals COULDN'T be infected by Nemesis (despite rather clear evidence to the contrary, and the fact that Lily said revealed it in Cold Days). Only seeing an infected Justine convinced people. That said, there is a WOJ that deliberately is ambiguous when asked whether a Fallen could be infected. I can find it for you if you want.

Not so sure that the Outsiders didn't want Ethniu to win though. Nemesis talks about it being less of a plan than "an act of faith" in empty night. Nemesis seems to be a bit more Joker than Bane. Agents of chaos after all. Because say Ethniu did win, it would have left Demonreach undefended, and the Outsiders could have attacked the island just as they did in Cold Days, and no one would have been there to defend it.

Nothing to say Marcone isn't infected just yet. But not much to say that he is. He still seems to be acting the same way as he always does, which would suggest he isn't infected.

Why couldn't multiple spirit beings infect the same host? Harry has had more than one being in his own head! Unless I misunderstand you. Not saying I agree with CT's theory altogether, although technically all beings from Before Creation are Outsiders of a sort. Just seem to be vastly differing types!

The Outsiders definitely wanted Ethniu to win. She was there to kill Mab who's the leader of the forces guarding the gates.

And you've got it backwards. The Angels were originally Outsiders. The angelic faction is the splinter group that serves their leader, TWG, and helped form Creation.
Forgot that key part, but quite right. Mab being dead would have made for a very weak Winter - hence Mab's request to Harry.

There does seem to be some qualitative difference between those beings that are referred to as Outsiders, and other spirits from before Creation such as angels and gods. They all do seem rather familiar with each other though, certainly no love lost.

32
DF Spoilers / Re: Some personal theories I want to get feedback on.
« on: April 18, 2023, 04:57:39 AM »
So it's actually not Michael, but Father Forthill who reveals this information.

Also, while Anduriel can hear and sometimes see out of any shadow, he can't do this out of every shadow. I highly doubt he can do it on consecrated ground like that of a church, given how hard it is for spiritual entities to even get onto church ground. Talk about a threshold.

Even if he could though, who's to say that isn't divine will? From what I understand of the series - it's all destiny through the privilege of free will. Humans make their choices with the gift of free will and that destiny comes into being. From what we have been told of The White God, I would say that's what he wants. Given that TWG is apparently omniscient and omnipotent, what could possibly happen outside the plan? What event that happens isn't divine will? Given that TWG would have always known everything that ever was and will happen and would have experienced all of time from beginning to end at the moment of Creation? Not only that, but has the power to do anything and change anything? If none of that is true, then that would mean that TWG isn't as all-powerful and all-knowing as is claimed. But that seems unlikely given Uriel's power level. That said, maybe there are very strange limits and loopholes too.

I don't mind the Kim Delaney theory. Definitely has some merit. What's Kim's connection to Cowl though? And why Kim over Harry (the strongest wizard in the city) or Mort or anyone else? What's Kim's connection to the dark side?

I like the numbers theory. The every fifth book is a Denarian theory is quite well known and practically confirmed by Jim. Not sure about the others. I don't remember vampires being a big part of Skin Game. I would also point out that Faeries are nearly in every book, same with Vampires earlier in the series (prior to Changes). And I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Black Council has it's fingerprints in every book in the series.


33
DF Spoilers / Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« on: April 18, 2023, 04:40:37 AM »
Justin wouldn't wonder why the Wardens were nervious about Harry... he would chock it up to two things:
1: Harry's well above average (for the council) raw power level.
2: Justin faking his own death at the hands of Harry.

Justin above anyone else would 'know' Harry was strong, but not as strong as the Wardens make him out to be.  The comment wouldn't even occur to Justin as cover.

I will eat my hat if Cowl IS Justin... no scratch that, I will go buy a hat and then eat it...

Justin is almost as bad a candidate for Cowl as Nameless is.
But Harry's raw power when Justin last fought him would have been a lot weaker. Not to mention his skill level would have been a lot worse. Harry finished his education with Ebenezar and then had over a decade of honing his skills and growing in strength until he would meet Justin again (assuming Cowl is Justin). So, not unreasonable then for Justin to wonder about Harry's power level. He would have heard Harry was strong, and he would have known his potential, but he wouldn't have yet seen it in action. Like a college scout seeing a pro footballer in high school. You can see what they might be, but you still want to see the finished product otherwise it's just unrealised potential.

Not sure about your point number two. Are you agreeing that Justin isn't dead?

Why else is Justin such a bad candidate? He was considered a powerful warden, we know he experimented with dark magic, he was at Kemmler's final fight (which leads to all sorts of questions if he is Cowl), he is a capable swordsman (being a warden) and Cowl speaks of his skill at swordplay, Justin picked up Bob (a demon that served arguably the greatest and most feared dark wizard in history) from the ruins of Kemmler's last stand (and how did he even know of Bob, and why didn't he just destroy it, and considering how strong Evil Bob is how did he even control it? And how did Cowl know Harry had Bob...Justin would know this of course but who else could know?) - there are so many reasons why Justin makes a good candidate. And those are just in-universe ones. From a writing perspective it's actually a classic literary trope to have the old mentor as the villain. Consider how much more impactful Cowl's identity reveal will be on Harry if Cowl was revealed as Justin. It would anger and scare Harry, it would tear him up emotionally that his surrogate father-teacher is still alive but not only alive but actually one of his biggest enemies. Not to mention Cowl clearly is working towards some skewed version of a Greater Good. He is insane but not like Corpsetaker or Grevane. He wants to improve the world (apparently through stopping death for some reason). And Justin might just have a very good reason for stopping death. We also know Justin was involved with Harry's mother, Arianna and Paolo Ortega, Lord Raith etc. We know they had some scheme around the Stars and Stones...just like Cowl. Also, consider that Simon was killed in his fortress. The White Council suspected Harry of supplying the Red Court with the necessary information to get past the wards...because he was Justin's student, and Justin was once Simon's student. Justin was only ruled out because of his apparent death. Yet we know Cowl and the Red Court worked together, and we know Harry didn't give out the information. So unless Simon is Cowl, or some other student of Simon was involved (the least likely story-wise), Justin makes for a good candidate. Cowl hides his face because he doesn't wish to give out any information. Justin is supposedly dead, so fairly good reason to cover his face. Cowl wants to bring down the White Council for having too many restrictions, Justin also felt that the Council has too many restrictions (as he learned from his master too).

Kumori as Elaine also works very well, given Kumori is both powerful (like Elaine), friendly with Harry (even though she shouldn't really be), quite likely was involved in Aurora's corruption (which Elaine was in a prime position to do), Kumori picked up Harry's force rings (which Harry remarks almost no-one picks up, but Elaine would given she studied under the same master and would know Harry's style and training), and Kumori is tall enough to hold a knife to Harry's throat (which is tricky for most women given Harry's height, but Elaine is at least six foot), and if Elaine is Kumori she is far more likely to work for Justin (as Cowl) than some other Cowl (because what link would Elaine have to some other Cowl?) Kumori as Elaine is still the most popular theory, and for good reason. It's the most likely. Also adds to Harry's betrayal and isolation.

If not Justin, who do you believe it is? Who is so familiar with Harry who is a powerful and well-trained (White Council level) wizard, who also might have experience with necromancy, who hits hard (perhaps harder) than a Senior Council wizard?

I honestly had never considered Nameless. I am hoping CT will explain his idea further. It's intriguing, even if I can't yet see it myself. One of the main reasons I don't think it works is that Nameless is closer to being a demigod and but Cowl's magic feels human (even if it's incredibly strong).

It’s likely Justin was working for Cowl, we know Nameless worked with Kemmler, he went to winter but couldn’t take Bob with him without incurring Mab’s wrath, so he handed him off to Justin. Justin may have only joined the Wardens in the first place as Nameless inside man.
When did Nameless work for Kemmler? Also, assuming your theory is correct, why would Nameless use a dark wizard and later hexenwolves as bait to flush out the information that Harry has Bob? And why would that reveal Bob is in Harry's possession?

Justin got Bob from Kemmler's effects after the White Council dealt with him. If Nameless had ever possessed him, he'd have told Harry in The Law.
Agreed.

34
DF Spoilers / Dresden Files animation
« on: April 16, 2023, 01:00:26 AM »
I've said it before, but thought I would bring it up again, a Dresden Files animated series would be great.

I know there is a live-action tv show in the works (although I think it might be in developmental hell currently). But an animated series can show more destruction, do crazier visual things, and doesn't have to worry about cast members aging too much. Really helps with the immortal and semi-immortal beings etc.

I also see it as a great way to re-launch interest in the series which could help the tv show etc.

I am thinking the two main studios I would want to see work on it are Powerhouse Studios (did Blood of Zeus in combination with two korean studios, and did the Castlevania tv series - both are on Netflix - also the opening title for Avatar: the Last Airbender), and Titmouse, Inc. (did the Legend of Vox Machina series).

Just google the artwork style and/or look at some scenes on youtube if you don't want to watch the full series.

Would you guys be interested in watching an animated series of the Dresden Files?

35
DF Spoilers / Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« on: April 15, 2023, 02:05:22 AM »
If Cowl isn't Justin Dumorne I will eat my hat.

He doesn't say Dresden, or the Wizard, he calls him Hary. Says he is a pain in his ass. It's familiar, and frustrated. If he were Simon, would he talk like that?

Also, the idea that Cowl has a bolt hole outside of Chicago further lends weight to it. One of Harry's worst enemies, right around the corner. Why would Cowl have that if he were Simon really? He would have places in Russia etc to go to. But Justin has links to Chicago. It's part of the reason Harry is there, I am sure of it. It's certainly where they spent their time together.

My Shadow also has a name - Ash. That's very cool to know.

Best short story he has written yet I think.

And while Master of the Future may hint at time travel, I rather think it has more to do with the Stars and Stones - which Justin had been preparing for long before he met Harry (it's why he chose Harry and Elaine).

If anyone says Justin is dead to me as a reason Cowl isn't Justin...I will eat a shoe. Do better. IF Jim has lied to us (which he does constantly) then Justin isn't dead, and makes him a prime candidate. Even Morgan suspected Justin might not be dead. In-universe hint! Not to mention, Cowl is a necromancer. Justin stole Bob, before he was Bob, a Necromancer's demon. Why? To learn necromancy (among other things). And we have seen Capiocorpus return from the dead, and Cowl too, which they learned from Kemmler (who did it several times over!)

So it seems highly possible Justin either came back from the dead and gave himself a new identity or faked his death with some sort of double...just as Alt-Harry will do in Mirror Mirror.

Harry is one of if not the strongest wizards of his generation, Justin was aware of that, I don't see Justin making that comment even if he was alive.
Why not? He totally would want to see how Dresden would have improved. And he wasn't trying to reveal his identity. Not to mention, he had sparred with Dresden in the past (both in practice and one "duel"). I think he was curious to see if Dresden had got any better since, and was mostly disappointed.

36
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council & BG
« on: April 15, 2023, 01:22:40 AM »
It's all a Nemesis plot.

One of the main points of PT/BG was the desire by Nemesis to hasten the Apocalypse. Go back and reread the conversation between Harry and Justine. It explains Thomas's attack on Etri and how the whole Ethniu/Formor attack on Chicago was a diversion for another attack on Demonreach. Basically, Nemesis monologues to Harry that it has been behind almost everything he's encountered and that it is the overarching villain of the piece.

Yes, there are individuals such as Cowl, Nic and Drakul running about. But almost all the other foes that Dresden has faced have been pieces in the game Nemesis is playing against the protectors of reality in this universe and even they are not entirely clear of his influence.
^^This.

It's been pretty thoroughly explained that Nemesis (and/or the Outsiders) have been involved with every major foe (and even some minor ones) in the series. They either have had a direct or indirect influence in every book, often via the so-called Black Council.

The Outsiders abhor creation and especially humans, they desire complete destruction. Everyone else wants a new creation along their own lines, but they are all quite happy to see the end of humanity.

Cowl quite clearly has the ear of the Outsiders (or some other equivalent sensory appendage, I hope, rather than some other sort of appendage), and as such is their man in creation, but he is likely playing his own game,  Nick is Lucifers guy, Drakul’s his own guy, Harry is Uriel’s guy.
You know, I think this is basically what the Stars and Stones is about. Whoever gets it right decides what their universe looks like (or even if there is one), although should they not elect to end everything then it's a waiting game until the next cycle. It may or may not effect things at the multiverse level (although I am sure it does to some degree).

I laughed, but hoo boy that is a minefield. All appendages are sensory though, unless you have lost the sense of touch.

Also, I highly doubt Cowl is their only man in Harry's universe, let alone all Creation. Hence the Black Council etc.

Not sure about Nick being Lucifer's guy. I kinda think he has his own plan. Just a very angry, dangerous man with the knowledge and ability to tip the scales of destiny. I always think of that very obscure WOJ about Nick being more dangerous to Creation than Lucifer, in some ways. Primarily because (and this is the salient point) Lucifer is in an argument with god, and therefore needs a Creation to argue about. He implies Nicodemus doesn't care so much about that.

I can't make my mind up on Drakul. He could be an evil Dragon, he could be an Outsider, he could be Lucifer depowered significantly, or simply a Demon Lord of some sort. His true identity is the key to knowing his motives. But I do agree that he largely seems to be his own man.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The BC, and I include Nemesis in that, wants dissension,  I agree, but the Accorded Nations are tighter together after fighting together,  that would have happened whether they won the battle or lost it.  Drakul, I don't see him working for anyone, he was just on a recruiting trip.

For now, I'll stand on my belief that Etri's attempted assassination and Ethniu's attack were separate plots by separate groups.   But others used it to pursue their own goals.

Unless or until we get additional evidence one way or the other.
The problem with this is that I doubt Nemesis predicted that it's assault would bind those allies tighter together. I think it assumed that regardless of the outcome of the Battle, more chaos would be in the world and therefore a more fractured Accords. And yet, x does not equal y (if you like). It's assumed premise lead to an illogical conclusion, because Nemesis is an Outsider. It has trouble working out humans, and that x factor confuses it's calculations.

And as Vincentric points out, it's actually stated the attacks are linked.

Quote
Thomas, struggling to speak.
 I thought of my brother’s face, crushed and swollen out of shape.
 Junghg. S’Jnngh.
 He hadn’t been able to say, “Justine.”
 Or maybe he hadn’t been trying to say it.
 I thought of the island, disturbed at the great powers expended that night.
 The last thing I needed was something slipping out of the prison during all the hubbub.
 S’Jnngh, he’d told me.
 Why had my brother gone after Etri?
 S’Justine, he’d told me.
 It’s Justine.
 Hell’s bells.
 It was Justine.

Quote
“See, there were just too many threads being pulled,” I said. “The attack on the Outer Gates especially. And the Titan herself . . . God, what a blunt instrument. What a big, loud distraction. So that you could get inside.”
 Justine’s head turned to face me. The lightening sky was behind her. There was nothing to be seen of her expression but blackness.
 I limped forward a couple of paces. Nothing specific was any worse than it had been an hour ago, but even the immunity of the Winter mantle had its limits. My joints felt like they’d been dipped in plaster and were slowly drying stiff.
 “And every single living family member of mine, personally, was placed in danger. All of them. To make sure I had the maximum amount of personal worry to distract me.”
 Justine has incredible cheekbones. They shifted, slightly altering her shadowy profile as she smiled.
 “Something about Justine wasn’t . . . quite right, earlier, in the apartment,” I said. And I let my voice harden. “How long ago did you possess the girl?”
 Justine was silent for a moment. Then she shook her head and said, “I think the problem is, you just don’t sound all that bright, wizard. Perhaps it’s skewing my expectations.”
 She turned toward me, slim and graceful, steady on the deck.
 I faced her and tried not to pitch over the rail as the Water Beetle bumped along the waves. It had been a long night. And I didn’t have much left, physically or otherwise.
 “Tell me your name,” I said, and slid some of my will into my voice.
 “You know who I am,” Justine purred in answer.
 Then she reached out with one hand and ripped a four-foot section of the ship’s steel handrail off its metal struts.
 I blinked wearily and fancied I could hear grains of sand pattering to the deck from my eyes. Now I knew what Ethniu had felt like at the end. “Humor me,” I said, with more of my will. “Tell me your name.”
 Justine, or whatever being was driving Justine’s body around, turned toward me and began slow, stalking paces forward. It made some abortive, choking noises in its throat, and then said, the words drawn from it reluctantly, “It will do you no good once I’ve caved in your skull. Nemesis am I called.”
 There. Bingo.
 For years, shadowy forces had been driving events in Chicago and in the wider world. For years, I’d been picking up threads and finding them connected to others. For years, I’d been flailing around trying to get an idea of the forces that had been arrayed against me.
 And tonight, one of the players was in the open.
 Right there. Behind Justine’s eyes.
 And I was going to get answers.
 I didn’t have much left in me but pure, stiff-necked, muleheaded contrariness.
 But even after the night I’d had, I still had plenty of it.
 “I don’t care what they call you,” I spat. The effort of maintaining my will made it impossible to move my feet as the slender girl stalked forward with her steel bar. “Thrice I say and done. Tell me your name.”
 The slender figure froze in front of me, shuddering.
 Then she exhaled in a slow, utterly sensual voice, “I am the doubt that wards away sleep. I am the flaw that corrupts, the infected wound, the false fork in the trail. I am the gnawer, the worm in the book, the maggot that burrows in the mind’s eye.”
 She shuddered in bizarre ecstasy and panted, in a frantic whisper, “I am He Who Walks Beside.”
 Hell’s bells.
 A Walker.
 And if I hadn’t twigged to its presence, I would have set it loose on Demonreach— the prison for the great nightmares of the world. Ethniu wasn’t the biggest thing in it—not by a long shot. And an Outsider with the power of a Walker, turned loose inside the island’s defenses, might well be able to destroy them and set loose every horror inside.
 Hell. There’d have been an Ethniu for every city, if the place got emptied out.
 The weight of my will, once finished forcing the information from the possessing being, flooded out of me and left me barely able to stand. I staggered back, away from the slender figure in front of me.
 Justine, calmly, pursued.
 “I hope it felt good to scratch that itch,” she purred. “This is the end of your story, starborn.”
 “How long?” I asked. “How long have you been in Justine?”
 Justine waved the steel bar in a vague gesture. “Mortal time is such a limited concept. A few years. Ever since she became close to Lara.”
 I glowered at her. “You conceived my brother’s child intentionally.”
 “Obviously,” Justine purred. “That ridiculous instinct, honestly. It is your kind’s greatest weakness. Once he understood that his mate and his offspring would die if he did not follow my instructions, well . . .” She shrugged.
 “So you sent him at Etri. At the svartalves, someone almost everyone respects. Why? To shatter the Accords?”
 “Apocalypse isn’t an event,” Nemesis murmured. “It is a frame of mind.”
 I probably would have staggered anyway, but the phrase hit hard.
 “This was less a plan than . . . an act of faith, I suppose you would say,” the Outsider continued through Justine’s lips.
 “Faith?” I asked.
 “In what is coming,” the Walker said. “The unraveling of all things into darkness and silence.”
 “Empty Night,” I breathed.
“Empty Night,” the creature echoed, in the hushed tone of a holy phrase. “So we pressed the attacks at the Outer Gates. While I sowed havoc within the walls of reality. We loosed some of the primal forces of your own precious Creation against you. Undermined Mab, her people, the Accords, the delusion of order you force upon the universe with your useless presence.” She smiled, dropping lower, the motion feline, sensual, hypnotic. “You may have survived the day. But the deed is done. We are the tide. Infinite. Unrelenting. And one day, starborn, make no mistake, we will wipe away all that you know. All we need is a single opening.”

37
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council & BG
« on: April 13, 2023, 09:55:08 AM »
Oh I don't know about that, the entire battle has their fingerprints all over it. I doubt many, if any, participated in the actual fighting.

But stirring up factions that haven't been at war in thousands of years, beings acting outside their normal behaviours and ignoring protocols and treaties...it's classic Black Council. Not to mention, Ethniu got Balor's eye somehow. She was locked in a tower by her father when he lost the Eye to her son. Now it's possible Lugh (her son) returned it to her, but then who ripped out her eye for her to place Balor's Eye in? My guess is a Walker of the Outside. Who else could damage her so? Also, how did she get Titanic Bronze? Only the Hekatonheires (Hundred-Handed Ones) knew it's secrets, even the Svartalves were not sure of it. Lots of questions and no answers.

An angry being like her was strong enough, but someone (or a group of someones) armed and armoured her and pointed her at her ancient foes. And why? To weaken their defence of the Outer Gates.

Also, consider that the Black Council (or rather, Nemesis) was behind the assassination attempt of Etri. This was done to destabilise the already fragile relations between the Accords members (this is said in Battle Ground). It's quite clear that after the Red Court failed to destroy the White Council, the Black Council unleased another force against them. I am sure there is more.

Further, the presence of Drakul would also hint at Black Council involvement. Whether he is aligned with them or not, I suspect he is connected to them, either as possible occasional allies or competition.

The Whamps and Svartalves working together was about pure survival. Had they refused, Mab (not to mention the other Accord members) might have made them pay later. More importantly though, failure to stop Ethniu would have likely meant their destruction (at least locally, and probably totally in the mid to long term).

The Battle wasn't merely to tire out Harry. That merely was one of Nemesis' many options. As Nemesis itself says, it's not so much a plan as an act of faith. I see Nemesis as more like the Joker than Bane, if that makes sense. An agent of chaos. Everything it does it merely to create more chaos, conditions that suit it and the Outsiders, that ultimately weaken the barriers that keep them out. It's all about the Outer Gates, and to a lesser (but still important degree), the prison at Demonreach. Remember, the Outer Gates came under major assault JUST as Ethniu announced her impending assault on Chicago.

To the Outsiders, what is a small dust-up like the Battle of Chicago but a bit of distraction to the forces allied against them? The Outsiders are fighting a multi-verse scale war, even one universe is ultimately a very, very tiny part of it all. Even if Harry's universe is very important, perhaps more important to the greater battle than most universes. The Outsiders might number in the trillions, likely very nearly infinite.

38
DF Spoilers / Re: Black Council & BG
« on: April 12, 2023, 11:48:42 AM »
No, depending on what you define as the Black Council.

Harry has suggested the possibility that all those Nemesis infects is what is thought of as Black Council. However, I think this isn't the case.

What seems to be more likely is that the Black Council either works for or uses/aids Nemesis. Given that the whole Ethniu assault was simply Nemesis (and the Outsiders) just causing a bit of chaos in order to distract everyone, I'd say that the Black Council was highly aware of the Fomor's impending assault.

Jim has said they were "very busy not getting stomped on" by Ethniu. They more seem like behind the scenes players than anything else.

Perhaps Cristos was simply maintaining his cover. More likely, I think he isn't Black Council and merely just a puppet they influence. Perhaps Nemesis infected but more likely just vain and greedy and working for them to improve his station. Stupid, arrogant, naive perhaps - but not necessarily outright evil.

Listen does seem like a good candidate for Black Council membership. Listen is very capable, sure. But he was up against a literal fairy queen (Molly). Is it so hard to believe she could fool him? Listen didn't betray Ethniu - even if by her standards she felt he did. It isn't a betrayal to be wrong. As Harry implies, she just doesn't get she couldn't have known everything. That even a being who thinks she is so powerful has blindspots.

That said, it could also be the case that she realised Listen had betrayed her outright and Harry hadn't realised and assumed something else. But I think it more likely that Listen failing to achieve his task was considered a betrayal by Ethniu.

39
DF Spoilers / Re: The Darkhallow
« on: April 07, 2023, 03:53:35 AM »
Again, the Darkhallow summons ghosts and that's what the user consumes. The Sleepers die in the aftermath where they are sucked into the vacuum caused by it.

You know, I am not so sure that's the case. If you read what the Darkhallow actually does back in Dead Beat, it's a spell that consumes spirits. I am not sure it distinguishes the spirits between those that are shades of the mortal departed or anything else. Bob was potentially going to be consumed if Cowl had succeeded, Dresden notes. Bob is no ghost or spectre, he is an air-spirit, a demon by certain definitions.

That said, I suspect it is impossible to consume an immortal without them first being made mortal. Which is why the Stone Table exists, and why Halloween is so important even to immortals - it allows them to gain power when they otherwise cannot. It allows change. Yes, it can also result in their deaths or the deaths of their enemies, but I suspect it's far more important to try and steal power and add it to one's own. That's far safer, but also longer term thinking than a slugfest or assassination (both of which are more likely to fail and may even result in death to the attacker).

Hence, if one did attempt a Darkhallow on Demonreach (remembering the only time it can be attempted IS on Halloween given that a mortal cannot become immortal except during that type of convergence - which doesn't mean there are not other places e.g. specific locations in the Nevernever that one could do a Darkhallow), one might be able to consume the immortal beings if released.

BUT - the variables are too high I think to be feasible. You have to kill each immortal, as I can't imagine they would go willingly, and they would each put up a fight. They are likely well rested and angry. Imagine trying to face down 100 Ethniu-level threats. And Demonreach contains thousands of monsters, maybe more. While not all would be immortal necessarily (although likely most are, given that the Naagloshii are the least powerful threats and they are immortal), you still have a lot of really big threats to contend with.

Then there is the issue of what happens if you did somehow manage to weaken enough of them to consume them in the vortex. I doubt there would be anything left of the performer of the Darkhallow. Given Dresden is probably the only being who could both release the prisoners and perform the Darkhallow given his knowledge and position as Warden, I doubt there would be a Dresden at the end. As CT says, you are what you eat. Jim has spoken a bit about this before. In consuming so many powerful identities (let alone dark, insane monsters), it wouldn't leave much left of the original being that ate them. The act of consuming them is an act of change, and the only thing that can change is the performer of the Darkhallow. Sadly, what would be left is a truly insane, incredibly powerful monster. But I doubt it would ever get to that stage.

I don't think most of them would be subject to "psychic vacuum" of the ghosts being eaten.
Mortals are relatively-weak, with little in the way of defenses; not so the entities in the Well.
This is right, I think. In their containment crystals, I think they would be protected against most things. Not to mention most if not all of the beings in the well are immortals and so basically impossible to kill. Beyond that, the magic of the Darkhallow consumes all the magic in the area (I suspect because the Darkhallow uses necromancy, which uses the power of death rather than life). This consuming of magic (i.e. life energy) is what creates a vacuum, and reality balances that by ripping all the life out in the local area to bring local reality back into equilibrium. This energy doesn't go to the Darkhallow performer, as they already have consumed the areas magic, it's life energy. The vacuum is an after-effect, a very dangerous and scary one. But not evil in and of itself, no more than a hurricane is evil. Just nature balancing itself out. I also don't think spirits (including immortals here) are the right sort of energy, given that strictly speaking, they aren't exactly alive. They are energy beings, sure. But mortal life energy has repeatedly shown to have a qualitative difference to it. I don't think the energy of the immortals would balance things out even if it could be ripped from them, which it can't anyway.

That may be debatable - whose magic?  Beyond human magic, apparently beyond even Ethnieu - but maybe a Mother could crack it, and I assume Uriel could. Kinda like bulletproof vests - depends on the bullet. That darkhallow is big power.
I don't think it was beyond Ethniu. She didn't know of it's significance. If she had, she might not have attacked so close to Chicago. Remember, He Who Walks Before was potentially able to crack it given enough time. Not to mention, it's not merely a matter of metaphysical/magical might. Mortal power is enough, given that Before was using mortals in it's rituals, and Ethniu had plenty of mortal servants too.

A being of the Mothers' level (including Uriel) could do it, but I doubt any would. Not to mention, even if they have the horsepower necessary, none of those beings seem to be able to influence events on the mortal plane except to the tiniest degree (although Lucifer seems to be able to get around this a bit more than the rest).

Anything powerful enough to destroy Demonreach would destroy the Earth as well.
Depends on your definition of destroy. If the Well's failsafe is activated it destroys most of North America. Such an event would be worse than any meteor to ever hit the planet (including the potential one theorized to have ended the Dinosaurs). Such an event would physically change Earth's climate to likely a completely inhospitable degree (given it would likely cover the planet in a dirt cloud that might not disperse for years). This assumes that the Banefire isn't so hot that it ignites the atmosphere, burning it away completely and leaving the Earth completely unprotected to the hostile nature of space. That would result in half the planet instantly burning and the other half freezing (depending on whether the light of the Sun was touching it), and this would be after the initial global firestorm. Now maybe if you were in a bunker deep enough you might survive all that, assuming you had your own oxygen supply etc. But not for long. The oceans would be evaporated, the entire surface made inimical to life. No air, water, safe and arable land, no food. Depending on the power of the Banefire's explosion, it might cause tectonic disturbances. Which means any bunker that wasn't immediately blown away, might still eventually become totally compromised due to the shifting continents.

That's a destroyed Earth by most definitions. And sure, there are lesser scenarios that only result in the USA getting firestormed on the surface. But that likely would still cause a massive geopolitical change, probably result in some very destructive wars, and probably still some negative climate effects on a global level etc. And this assumes no other supernatural involvement. Plenty of monsters might come out at this point to exploit the situation.

But if you mean a full-on Death Star-like planet-fully-destroyed-and-turned-to-rubble moment (overkill by most definitions), I think that's redundant.

Besides, why destroy Demonreach? Just as easy to leave it there and keep away any competition. Not to mention, simply cracking it open would be enough to end the world (in some cases even for just one of those beings getting out) let alone all of them. As I said earlier, cracking it open isn't simply a matter of brute strength. Skill, knowledge, will and tools are just as capable (perhaps more so in some cases). It might be easier and have a higher chance of success to simpy use leverage. Even the Outsiders didn't just use brute strength, and they have potentially an unlimited amount (by some definitions). They used a variety of approaches.

 

40
DF Spoilers / Re: Harry's Moving Island of Avalon
« on: April 04, 2023, 09:06:28 PM »
Hello, and welcome to the forums!

I quite like the theory!

I agree that it likely exists in multiple points of spacetime, given it was made that way (five at least), and also due to the power that five has magically speaking in the series.

I am not sure I agree it actually moves around - although that would make logical sense - I am not sure it's actually the case in the series. Simply put, from what we have seen of magic, it's incredibly hard to do something like physically move an island (borderline impossible) for a human. So unless a Dragon (capital D - like Ferrovax) or something of that order or above got involved, it would not be possible. Even so, it seems like they still use regular physics to aid them rather than simply being like a Minecraft editor. Given Jim said something about Dragons being told to "divert rivers" and "split continents".

In any case, I don't know if Merlin could have done such a thing unaided. So if he was aided, who helped him?

Another theory I have read is that Merlin deliberately picked an island far from his home land. How he knew of it or was drawn to it is hard to say, but I would guess either divine (or similar) intervention and/or time-travel things.

Also, it has been revealed that Excalibur and Amoracchius are one and the same (first revealed in Ghost Story). So it's not been just hanging around. It's been quite active - most recently in the hands of Michael Carpenter, ex-Knight of the Cross. So who would be it's wielder after him? A Knight...or a King?

But the person who would be most like a King recently is Marcone...and there is a pretty big reason why he CAN'T do just that, short of a massive change in personality. But even he isn't irredeemable.

Another King might be someone mortal, perhaps not yet seen in the series, but my money would be on Daniel Carpenter or even Harry Carpenter. Bloodlines seem to hold importance with the Swords.

Still though, I like the idea of a moving island. Would certainly have been more convenient for the Original Merlin, and make more sense why he is connected to a random island in America. That said, still doesn't explain how or why it moved there from wherever it was.

41
DF Spoilers / Re: Medusa, a positive guardian?
« on: April 04, 2023, 08:49:58 PM »
Harry has Gargoyles, that doesn’t phase them.

He wouldn’t be happy though to find his young daughter stoned.
Petrified, is the term. Harry's daughter being stoned carries other meanings - one that would be initially funny but actually quite sad and the other is horribly violent.


Not to mention that everyone who looks directly at Medusa is turned to stone... Not really a good guardian..
And the fact Medusa has been killed. Harry was more likely to run into her in his brief time in Hades' Underworld. But yes, Medusa wouldn't be the best guardian of a living being.

All we know is that Maggies baby sitter is a Gorgon, Medusa had two sisters who were immortal, whereas Medusa was not. Hades would not allow a soul to escape, so it was likely the living Euryale or Sthenos, more likely the former as the latter is unduly bloodthirsty.

Euryale is a wife of Poseidon (Hades brother) and mother of Orion, the Giant Huntsman. I do wonder therefore if the Erl King is in fact Orion, and Maggie is being babysat by the Erl King’s mother?

That would freak Harry out.
Well they are the famous Gorgons. It could be a lesser Gorgon that babysits Maggie. Just as there were three Elder Cyclopes and a few famous younger ones like Polyphemus.

Apart from the hunting link, what makes you think the Erlking is Orion? Also, I believe when Orion died he was turned into the constellation. But that could just be embellishment. Still though, if Orion is another form of the Erlking, how many other names does the Erlking have? Who else in history and myth might he have been? We know of course about the Lord Herne connection. But what others might be there?

42
DF Spoilers / Re: The Darkhallow
« on: April 02, 2023, 08:45:16 PM »
  Let's not forget that Darkhallow is one of the things that runs through desperate Harry's mind along with trying to call back Lasciel's coin as worst, worser, and least worse option of becoming Winter Knight as he laid on his broken back in his office in Changes, to save little Maggie.
True, but I think given Harry took the Winter Knight option - which hardly seems comparable tbh - Jim has written that story line out for now. Which isn't too say there isn't a Harry who didn't end up performing a mini-darkhallow (given the proper one needed to be on Halloween).

I think that The Darkhallow strength is dependent upon the circumstances, Halloween is a peak time to perform it where you can draw in the most power. Do it any other time it will give you a power up but not to God level, more in the Denarian/Winter Knight level. There may be other factors which affect its power, such as the presence of The Erl King in the mortal world.

Kemmler might have already done such a ‘weak’ Darkhallow, he was so much stronger than the average wizard, but unable to achieve the circumstances for a full Darkhallow during his lifetimes. The Erl King was in the 19th C Wildfae, by Dresden’s time he’s sworn fealty to Mab. This may have been to protect him from being summoned by Kemmler and Nameless - certainly when the latter was paperclipped into Winter.
Very true, the amount of available energy is entirely circumstantial, not to mention that in order to go from mortal to immortal, the spell/rite must be performed on Halloween. Otherwise the change in state from mortal to immortal cannot occur.

Then there is the quality of the spirits. Older spirits carry more metaphysical power than those more recently deceased - hence partially why they used Native American spirits (all the more grotesque I imagine to the local Native people). Spirits also are drawn to things of the material world (places, objects etc.). So you also need a certain amount of objects the spirits would be drawn to (hence why Corpsetaker posed as a historian on an ancient Native American exhibition, and why it was also performed at a museum). As you also point out, the Erlking is somewhat crucial as you need his power to weaken the barrier between the Nevernever and the real world further and for him to summon even older spirits (hunters, specifically). Finally, you need to create a certain amount of metaphysical turbulence between the real world and the Nevernever, which has been occurring for a few years before the Darkhallow was attempted in Chicago. So there is a big difference between a Darkhallow like the one that was attempted in Dead Beat and just trying it out anywhere, anytime.

In a way, Chicago is primed for another Darkhallow. All the recent death and destruction, all the turbulence. Just happens that one very angry, increasingly powerful Wizard watches over the place (who now has soloed a Titan). Not to mention all the other protectors the city has...like Marcone.

If I were Cowl, I would pick a much, much older city with far more violence in it's history than Chicago. Like London or Rome or Cairo, or maybe not even a capital. Pick a less protected city than Chicago too, somewhere the White Council holds less sway - so probably not Europe. Cairo or Luxor seem like good options. Maybe Grozny in Russia or Palmyra in Syria, or even Baghdad in Iraq.

Then you create another big distraction for the White Council and it's allies - another Ethniu-like situation, another massive Outsider assault on the Gates, another critical war going on. While everyone is distracted, you perform the Darkhallow. You also at this point would have gathered enough relics, enough historical objects for the spirits, created enough spiritual turbulence for the past few years, and summon the Erlking or another psychopomp-like being (surely there are a few). But that's just me.

I think the Erlking was far stronger in Dead Beat than he is later - Jim was still sorting out relative power levels. Hell, the Erlking uses telepathy to communicate the first time!

Curiously, Harry always assumed Mavra wanted the Word of Kemmler for herself to become a god, or whatever. But now we know she works for Drakul and is likely his most loyal servant. Perhaps it is Drakul who wishes to become a god (or something closer to what he was), again. Terrifying food for thought.

Also, CT, why would Nameless be involved in all this? I don't remember his connection to Dead Beat.

It’s Checkov’s Darkhallow

It might require a Starborn for peak effect, which is why Drakul wanted it BUT Harry would only use it if it didn’t harm innocents. Ripping the Lifeforce from say a Fomor Army in achieving it would help ESPECIALLY if he has the Blackstaff to shield from the harmful effects and the Spear to maximise success. We have literally seen Eb rip the life from a hundred Red Court flunkies in the same way the Darkhallow would.

Any innocents could hide behind the Placard THAT would shield them from the Darkhallow as would the Carpenters House.
I don't think it works that way. It uses spirits, not life energy, to power to ritual. The vacuum of all that magic being eaten is what steals life force to bring back balance. So I don't think you could use it to "eat" the Fomor army like that.

Also, there are a lot of innocents - more than could fit in Mac's Bar and Michael's house. Think a few million.

43
DF Spoilers / The Darkhallow
« on: April 02, 2023, 01:18:22 AM »
I think the Darkhallow has been overlooked in the series for the significance of it's event, it's design, it's intended purpose and potential.

Upon re-reading Dead Beat for the hundreth time, it really struck me the power of the Darkhallow.

From the exchange with Queen Mab:
Quote
Know this, mortal: Should Kemmler's heirs acquire the knowledge bound within the Word, they will be in a position to gather up such power as the world has not seen in many thousands of years."
 "What? How?"
 "Kemmler was"—Mab's eyes grew distant, as if in memory— "a madman. A monster. But brilliant. He learned how to bind to his will not only dead flesh, but shades—to rend them asunder and devour them to feed his own power. It was the secret of the strength that allowed him to defy all the White Council together."
 I added two and two and got four. "The heirs want to call up the ancient spirits," I breathed. "And then devour them for power."
 Mab's deep-green eyes almost seemed to glow with intensity. "Kemmler himself attempted it, but the Council struck him down before he could finish."
 I swallowed. "What happens if one of his heirs is able to do it?"
 "The heir would gain power such as has not been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of your race," Mab said.
 "The Darkhallow," I said. I rubbed at my eyes. "That's what it is. A ritual, tomorrow night. Halloween. They all want to be the one to make themselves into a junior-league god."


So we learn what the Darkhallow is - a ritual of ascension. And yet, also not. Harry says it's more a spell than a rite - the difference I seem to remember is where the power comes from. The destruction and consuming of spirits by the performer imbues them with the power of a "junior-league" god, as Dresden says. Mab says that kind of power hasn't been wielded by mortal hands in the memory of the human race. At face value, that could be 10-100 thousand years. But I think Dresden only later realises that he might have underestimated how much power was in play.

Quote
Cowl kept on chanting, and I saw his body arch with tension. Over the next minute or so, he actually, physically rose above the ground, until his boots were three or four inches in the air. His voice had become part of the wild storm, part of the dark energy, and it rolled and boomed and echoed all around us. I began to understand the kind of power we were dealing with. It was power as deep as an ocean, and as broad as the sky. It was dark and lethal and horrible and beautiful, and Cowl was about to take it all in. The strength it would give him would not make him a match for the entire White Council. It would put him in a league so far beyond them that their strength would mean virtually nothing.

It was power enough to change the world. To reshape it after one's own liking.

So I think we can see it dawns on Harry that should Cowl succeed here, the world will change. There will be a new order to things, and Cowl, or rather the thing that Cowl would have become, would be in charge.

Even Corpsetaker said something about granting Harry autonomy and a principality of his choice, effectively making Harry a lord or king under him. Probably of a good portion of the USA, maybe all of it.

That's the kind of world-shaping power in play.

What's curious is what the other supernatural nations would have done. We know that Cowl (or whoever had succeeded, but probably Cowl) would have wiped out the Senior Council and effectively destroyed the White Council while the Red Court would have cleaned up the dregs. Without the White Council, humanity would have been less protected and more open and brazen attacks would have occurred. The smaller Accords nations certainly would have gone to ground, or served or been wiped out. Vadderung and Ferrovax likely would have retreated unless forced to fight, and I suspect they might have waited for a more certain victory. The Vamps and others likely would have served (or at least allied) with this new entity, which we must assume is much stronger than the Lords of the Outer Night (Red King inclusive), and Drakul etc. The Jade Court would just have waited things out I imagine, given that's all they apparently do...I also can't see the Faeries just lying down. But they might have stayed back. This being would have been beyond Mab and Titania, per WOJ. Probably not beyond the Mothers but it's hard to say how close. But the Mother's don't do direct fights like that - although curiously given the conversation with Kumori (and the theory that one of Mother Winter's aspects is that of Death), one might assume Cowl (as a god) would have attempted to kill Mother Winter in order to "end death" as Kumori puts it. Can't imagine Mab would have take that lying down. Then again, Cowl seems to work with Outsiders so they might have given him the opening he would have needed.

We also know that Ethniu was ready to go with an army and her superweapon and nigh-invulnerability. We know that The Outsiders had a serious assault or two ready to go, led by He Who Walks Before. He Who Walks Beside also clearly has many interweaving goals, which the Darkhallow might be linked to. We know that Nicodemus had several plans on the go, some of which involved stealing high-value supernatural relics, and corrupting powerful people including the Archive. Not to mention Drakul clearly also has some similar operations to Nicodemus going on. My guess is Nicodemus, Drakul etc. would have gone to ground. Maybe paid their respects eventually whilst working away at their larger goals. I doubt they care who rules - I think their plans are larger and far worse than ruling the world.

Ethniu likely would have challenged any new Power. I have speculated before on who might win that and it's quite hard to judge. I can't see Cowl and Ethniu working together (unless they already had been...which is possible, if not likely). But would they have stayed allies? In theory Ethniu all armored up and with the Eye of Balor should be stronger. But the way it's worded in Dead Beat makes you think that Cowl would have been stronger. A dark god of necromancy, likely. Easily able to make his own army I think. I suspect he would have had the power to pierce through the armor, given the requirement to get through Titanic Bronze is either enough power, or power from the right place (infernal or celestial). I don't see how he would counter the Eye, but Cowl is very clever and might have planned for such a thing. More likely he would have avoided a straight fight if possible and tried to work with her to suppress the mortals.

Which then gives us the mortal issue. Would Cowl have been strong enough outright to dominate all mortal opposition? Armies of the dead might suggest that, in a zombie apocalypse type way. One only has to watch a few zombie movies or tv shows to see how quickly civilisation would crumble - although mostly infection seems more dangerous than merely being summoned. Not sure how humans would deal with spectres like the Corpsetaker summoned. But humans do have other organisations that protect them like the Librum Bellum - the MIB. One expects they wouldn't have just rolled over, and might even have strategies for just such an event. Not to mention, we have seen that Alfred can probably handle even very powerful entities if he's close enough (although he still needs the Warden to help bind them). And that's just one thing - who knows how many other such countermeasures exist.

Yet Dresden, and the Wardens, the Necromancers and even Fae all seemed very convinced that should a dark god emerge, that was it for civilisation. This suggests it would be a far worse event than most, a being perhaps far stronger than Ethniu. Which might mean such a creature might be a lot harder to stop. And maybe not such a junior-league god, as Dresden thinks.

One wonders how the Outsiders would have dealt with it too. My guess is that just like with Ethniu, Cowl succeeding at the Darkhallow was merely an opportunity for the Outsiders to exploit. Creating the right kind of conditions for their version of the apocalypse. In the end, I think the Outsiders are ultimately the biggest threat to everything given they torture and destroy and consume universes, and want to do that to the entire multiverse of Creation. Or so it seems.

But it was still a really big event, should it have occcured. And I highly doubt that Cowl won't attempt another Darkhallow (although one thinks he might want to pick another city, just logically). Even the name Darkhallow (Dark-holy) gives you an idea of how big an event it was. Something curious we have seen (only briefly) is the power of holiness, or unholiness as the case may be. The Sleeper managed to consecrate the ground of it's Church. Normally, this is reserved for the White God and other major religions (I assume). Presumably, each of the varying religions in their era had this power too (Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Japanese, Sumerian, Chinese, Irish, etc) but due to current circumstances do not have this power any more. Would Cowl have had this power? Could he have consecrated his own special areas?

Food for thought.

In any case, do you think we will see another Darkhallow attempt? By Cowl or some other? Even Kemmler (should he somehow return, assuming he hasn't already)? If it occurs again, would the BAT kick off?

44
DF Spoilers / Re: Chat gpt predicting Cowl's identity
« on: February 07, 2023, 01:24:35 AM »
Called it.  ;) :P

Seriously though, ChatGPT could probably work out some things. Not so sure it has worked out this one though, given it's current reasoning. Which isn't to say that it is wrong.

However, I can't see Kumori being Ivy as Ivy is WAY stronger than Kumori for a start, and also was a small child during Dead Beat whereas Kumori was tall enough to hold a knife to Dresden's throat. And zero chance of Ivy being his half-sister as Margaret has not been said to be the previous Archive. That surely would have come up by now. Also the age gap tends to make it unworkable given both Harry's parents were dead before Ivy was born.

45
DF Spoilers / Re: Are there Mormon influences in the Dresden Files?
« on: September 01, 2022, 12:22:26 PM »
Fair enough, I admit I don't have enough evidence yet to make a substantial theory.

Then again, Jim is also a theology scholar and was raised in a fundamentalist religious environment so I don't think it's impossible either.

Thing is, "outer darkness" isn't that common in fiction. At least from what I have found so far. Do you have any examples you would care to share? The two closest are Dungeons and Dragons and the Lovecraft mythos that I have found.

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