The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
Mira:
--- Quote ---1) the attack in CD was an anomaly. The Island was attacked by Fae , The ladies and their retinues. That not an everyday thing. The defenses were at their weakest and they held. Its mentioned that the Fae are close to nature sothe Island was weak against them.
--- End quote ---
No, they really didn't, it was the fight that Molly helped to put up, along with Harry and the others. The actual final defenses for the prison itself were never tested. If Harry hadn't been able to summon Mab, who aided Murphy in shooting Maeve, it could have gone the other way.
--- Quote ---2) Mab mentions that the Alfred could have chosen to stop them rather than just standing there.
--- End quote ---
Did she? I don't remember that line, do you have a quote? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't remember it. Also Alfred can't choose, he has to be ordered, if it were that simple it wouldn't have been as close as it was. Even if Harry had ordered him, apparently the defenses of the island are a bit more complex that's why it took Harry a year to learn them and put them in place. And notice in Skin Game Mab was actually asking permission to come onto the island where as in Cold Days she didn't.
--- Quote ---3 (yeah i know couple means 2 but i can neither confirm or deny that i am not a fae as noone has asked)
Santa Claus was on the case, Lea was on the case , Mab was on the case ,hell the Goblin king was on it.
Point being it was an attack that played on the Island's weaknesses. And the major powers were ready to step in.
One last thing is the Island part of the WC sphere of responsibility or not. Cause if it is the WC has a right to choose the Warden or the right to at least nominate a suitable candidate. But if its not the WC JUST has to seat back and may observe the situation from afar which is exactly what they have done
--- End quote ---
And they were losing until Maeve was killed. If all you say is true, then why did the powers wait until the last minute?
Tinfoil hat:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 04, 2024, 12:46:46 PM ---No, they really didn't, it was the fight that Molly helped to put up, along with Harry and the others. The actual final defenses for the prison itself were never tested. If Harry hadn't been able to summon Mab, who aided Murphy in shooting Maeve, it could have gone the other way.
Did she? I don't remember that line, do you have a quote? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't remember it. Also Alfred can't choose, he has to be ordered, if it were that simple it wouldn't have been as close as it was. Even if Harry had ordered him, apparently the defenses of the island are a bit more complex that's why it took Harry a year to learn them and put them in place. And notice in Skin Game Mab was actually asking permission to come onto the island where as in Cold Days she didn't.
And they were losing until Maeve was killed. If all you say is true, then why did the powers wait until the last minute?
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Chapter 46 cold days,
Harry says to Molly
Demonreach was meant to keep things in, not out, but I didn’t want to blab about that in front of mixed company. “It encourages everyone to stay away, and turns up the heat slowly for anyone who doesn’t,” I said back. “But that’s when it isn’t being attacked by an army of cultists and a horde of howling freaks from beyond reality. It was busy making sure none of the Outsiders could come up onto shore—and none of them could. It just outmuscled an army led by something that could go could go toe-to-toe with Mab. Everything has its limits.
Chapter
you do.”
Chapter 52
Mab nodded her head slightly, and descended to the ground. From me, she turned to Demonreach. “I thank you for your patience and your assistance in this matter. You could have reacted differently but chose not to. I am aware of the decision. It will not be forgotten.”
Sorry i have a hardcopy so yeah
Mira:
--- Quote ---Demonreach was meant to keep things in, not out, but I didn’t want to blab about that in front of mixed company.
--- End quote ---
That's the important sentence here... Back in chapter 17 page 171 when Harry visits the island with Bob.. Bob and Alfred explain why a Warden is needed for the place.
--- Quote ---"THE EXPLANATION WOULD DAMAGE YOU, WARDEN."
Bob made an impatient sound. "Because the spirit isthe island, Harry The spells, the Well,the physical island, all of it. Demonreach does not existoutside this island. It has noability to reach beyond itself. The attack is coming from outsidethe prison. That's why it needs a Warden in the first place."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Chapter 52
Mab nodded her head slightly, and descended to the ground. From me, she turned to Demonreach. “I thank you for your patience and your assistance in this matter. You could have reacted differently but chose not to. I am aware of the decision. It will not be forgotten.”
Sorry i have a hardcopy so yeah
--- End quote ---
Since Alfred was meant to keep things in, and once the breech was made had to rely on a fail safe, i.e. blowing up the island taking with it a huge chunk of North America.. I believe Mab was thanking Alfred for not being too hasty in making that choice once Maeve had breached the last of his defenses. While yeah, maybe you can say that Alfred chose to delay the fail safe, if Maeve hadn't been defeated in the last minute, it would have been used. Also keep in mind, it wasn't Alfred that stopped Maeve, it was Murphy with Mab's help.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: vincentric on October 01, 2024, 05:03:54 PM ---Everything to do with Demonreach is a retcon it seems though.
In Small Favor, where we are introduced to it, a large group of non-wizards were able to reside there long enough to build a cannery and dock. How? The psychic pressure of the island gave Karrin, Michael and even Thomas horrible nightmares after just a day or so of exposure. Its vibes are strong enough to get it excluded from all maps of Lake Michigan and flight paths into Chicago steer clear of it. That's a pretty strong ward.
--- End quote ---
I could see it being that Karrin and Michael are more 'sensitive' to such things because of their own experiences, ditto Thomas even more so as a White Vampire. Ordinary folks might not 'feel' the repulsion as strongly, or as fast, that might have enabled the cannery to run for a while before nobody could stand it.
Alternatively, the former cannery might have been a 'cover' for something supernatural trying to do something against the island. But that's just wild-ass-guess speculation.
We just don't have enough information, enough basic data.
Also, it's probably not just the ward. I'm not sure Alfred even could influence the pilots and other people beyond its domain.
I think somebody, somewhere, has to be deliberately pulling strings in the FAA and other institutions to keep flight paths away and so forth. If it was just the repulsion from the island, tracking radars and onboard instruments would detect the planes leaving their course in that area, and Questions would be asked.
For that matter, the cannery had employees, presumably their employment records and tax returns and so forth are on file somewhere. The island exists and if the cannery was there, that suggests that someone in the mundane world theoretically owns the land (my guess would be the White Council through shells).
Speculation: the island is run/owned/controlled by a coalition of supernatural powers including the White Council, but also including some other heavy players too. That might help explain the long gaps in Warden-dom, it might be that the various power players just can't agree on who should be the man (or woman).
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 02, 2024, 05:54:59 PM ---Doing so may have revealed the island's secret. Also I doubt that the White Council has any control over the island. The island picks and chooses who it want's to be it's keeper or Warden, not the White Council.
--- End quote ---
I doubt Alfred is the only power involved. Alfred can't reach out beyond the island and choose someone, after all. Somebody would have to come to the island and offer himself (or herself) for the job, like Harry.
So I suspect the Council usually plays at least some role in the appointment.
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