The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Soul Gaze in Blood Rites, Something Margaret Said to Harry About Justine..
Regenbogen:
--- Quote ---My mother nodded at Thomas."The girl he loved. She is gone. She was his strength. It knows that."
--- End quote ---
Good find. This strengthens my theory that this was the point in time when Nemesis took over completely. Somewhere I have written, that I think, Thomas wouldn't have had the control to stop feeding on Justine when he was so injured. Nemesis stopped him. Because it was inside her before, probably since Grave Peril, when she was the Reds' prisoner, but once the last remnants of the real Justine were killed in Blood Rites, Justines Body became the main host. During her time of "recovery", Nemesis wasn't always "at home", because it was busy trying to corrupt the Leanansidhe and infecting Maeve and other shenanigans, I am sure.
In Proven Guilty, Lea is seen as a prisoner in the ice garden at Arctis Tor. But the ice is already melting. This is when Nemesis starts to control Justines body again, which can be seen during White Night, when she leads Harry and Carlos to the Deeps.
My theory is, Nemesis can influence several people at the same time, but it can only inhabitate one at a time. So it was trapped in Lea, during her healing by Mab, thus could not be in Justine at the same time.
But there are traces of Nemesis left behind in each host, like a Fallen's shadow, I think. So the manipulation continues, even when Nemesis is not actively inside the person.
But Justine was different, she wasn't just a host any more after Blood Rites. Justine was gone, so Nemesis could not only be in her body as its host, but it could actually BE Justine.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Regenbogen on August 19, 2024, 10:45:15 PM --- ... I think, Thomas wouldn't have had the control to stop feeding on Justine when he was so injured. Nemesis stopped him. Because it was inside her before, probably since Grave Peril, when she was the Reds' prisoner ...
--- End quote ---
This is a very, very interesting sequence.
It contradicts testimony in the book... but given that said testimony comes from Nemesis itself, we can presume it's a lie if there were any advantage at all to lying.
And it lines up with my own WAG that Rampires -- led, we note, by the Lords of Outer Night -- had some connection with the Outer Gates and Outsiders.
Nemfecting Justine while they had control of her seems like a very Nemesis-long-play move.
* * *
OTOH, Nemesis' own testimony is highly plausible for another reason: "when Justine got close to Lara" is another likely infection-point, because Papa Raith had multiple bits of Outsider magic & WoJ is that he had collected a bunch of materials in an effort to become a power-player in the upcoming Starborn/Apocalypse event.
WAG here is that Mab has identified the Whampire Court as a previously-unknown Nemfection vector... so, she has pulled Harry's pin and tossed a Dresden-shaped grenade (Starborn Wizard Winterknight with twin penchants for investigation & mayhem) into Nemesis' bunker...
Regenbogen:
--- Quote ---OTOH, Nemesis' own testimony is highly plausible for another reason: "when Justine got close to Lara" is another likely infection-point
--- End quote ---
I think the words "close to Lara" are meant to make us think it means when Justine started to work for Lara.
But in my theory it can also mean "close to Lara" in location. Meaning either Justine got infected during her imprisonment in Grave Peril and because she was Thomas' girlfriend and Thomas during that time often met with Lara offscreen. So she often was in proximity to Lara.
Or Justine was even the first vector, the first nemfected person.
Iirc the question in Battle Ground was "since when have you been in Justine?"
What if Justine was Nemesis' plant all along. Everything planned, from the moment she met Thomas till the end in BG. Becoming Thomas' girlfriend could also be seen as "close to Lara".
I always thought it weird, that the Reds wanted her before. What interest could they have in one weak human girl? They could have any other girl. Why Justine?
And yes, all of this already implies that in theory the Reds worked for the Outsiders.
All of this almost purely speculation, of course.
Edit: the Reds' interest could have been faked to push Thomas to act and safe her, thus making it more probable for her to become his girlfriend.
Mira:
--- Quote ---And it lines up with my own WAG that Rampires -- led, we note, by the Lords of Outer Night -- had some connection with the Outer Gates and Outsiders.
Nemfecting Justine while they had control of her seems like a very Nemesis-long-play move.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and here are a couple of points on that, while we don't know for sure, but Outsiders or some power, maybe Nemesis appears to be protecting Lord Raith. That's why even Eb cannot kill him, Harry felt it in Blood Rites when he tried, but Margaret at least found a way to neutralize with her death curse. Who set Thomas up with Justine? Lord Raith. Lord Raith would be one of the few at that point in time who knew that Thomas and Harry were brothers. He might have surmised that Harry was star born, because of Margaret, because he may have been hoping to conceive one with her. Lord Raith then knew at some point down the line Harry would be a threat, long term chess tactics, set up Thomas with Neminfected Justine, Thomas and Harry get together, Justine manipulates Thomas and has a path to destroy Harry.
--- Quote ---What if Justine was Nemesis' plant all along. Everything planned, from the moment she met Thomas till the end in BG. Becoming Thomas' girlfriend could also be seen as "close to Lara".
I always thought it weird, that the Reds wanted her before. What interest could they have in one weak human girl? They could have any other girl. Why Justine?
And yes, all of this already implies that in theory the Reds worked for the Outsiders.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
One more crazy thought just appeared in my sleep deprived head.. What if it wasn't his mother Harry was talking to in the soul gaze, but Nemesis itself? Ergo the "insight" that she gifted Harry with, was really an attempt at infecting him.. I really don't think so, but it is a possible scenario for who was Harry really talking to in that soul gaze. Crazy thoughts and theories aside, I still think it was Margaret, his mother. We know she was a powerful wizard, and wasn't adverse to breaking the rules. She also had a wizards foresight, yes, real thing remember Luccio telling Harry that his was awakening when he visited Demonreach for the first time? Since Margaret wasn't adverse to breaking the Rules of Magic, she may have come up with a way to imprint some of herself into the heads of both her sons.. Hey, Margaret came up with a way to neutralize Lord Raith, why couldn't she do that as well?
Avernite:
--- Quote from: Regenbogen on August 20, 2024, 05:16:22 AM ---I think the words "close to Lara" are meant to make us think it means when Justine started to work for Lara.
But in my theory it can also mean "close to Lara" in location. Meaning either Justine got infected during her imprisonment in Grave Peril and because she was Thomas' girlfriend and Thomas during that time often met with Lara offscreen. So she often was in proximity to Lara.
Or Justine was even the first vector, the first nemfected person.
Iirc the question in Battle Ground was "since when have you been in Justine?"
What if Justine was Nemesis' plant all along. Everything planned, from the moment she met Thomas till the end in BG. Becoming Thomas' girlfriend could also be seen as "close to Lara".
I always thought it weird, that the Reds wanted her before. What interest could they have in one weak human girl? They could have any other girl. Why Justine?
And yes, all of this already implies that in theory the Reds worked for the Outsiders.
All of this almost purely speculation, of course.
Edit: the Reds' interest could have been faked to push Thomas to act and safe her, thus making it more probable for her to become his girlfriend.
--- End quote ---
One concern I have with the 'pre-planned plant' is that Thomas was convinced that Justine had true-love protection. That seems the kind of 'one of a kind' feeling a White Court Vampire wouldn't be wrong about.
Of course that's also a flaw with 'immediately after the near-fatal feeding' for Nemfection, because the True Love protection must have kicked in at/after that feeding.
I can't exclude the possibility Nemesis can simulate it... but in all other Dresden Files situations Love is a rather big deal. To be able to simulate it feels wrong to me.
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