The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I just had a funny idea (serious spoilers for BG, just in case)
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 11, 2024, 08:21:35 PM --- ... As cool as all that is, the problem still is how does this further the series along? There has to be a point to it.
--- End quote ---
I think there's actually a lot of potential for that.
It'll really expand Harry's mind, his perspective. He'll be able to understand more of his own world, bring his learning home with him.
It may very-well expose some Bad Guys who've gone mask-off / out of cover, in the darker Mirrorverse; allowing Harry to address their evilness when he gets back to our Prime universe. The "Black Council" may be functionally unmasked, and/or key members. Etc...
If my "good Marcone" proves even vaguely correct, it may further set up a redemption-arc for Marcone!Prime, and/or open Harry's eyes to other possible KotC's.
& so on & so forth...
Dina:
I am not sure how MirrorMirror is going to be. Is our Harry going to Mirror Universe or is Mirror Harry coming to our universe?
I can see our Harry teaming with MirrorMarcone and MirrorMurphy to stop (perhaps killing) MirrorHarry. I wonder if we will see a soulgaze or a death curse by MirrorHarry. It will be interesting. In any case, our Harry will be devastated. He always felt he was a monster, it was his greatest fear and the reason to plan his own killing when he became the WK. So having his fear confirmed, that he is pretty much a bad day away to become bad Harry (as Joker would say) will be terrible. The only hope I see is Mirror Harry redeeming himself, probably saving little Maggie. Because we all know loving a child is the purest, all healing thing.
I am wondering about Mirror Thomas and what will be his reality.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Dina on August 11, 2024, 11:42:55 PM ---I am not sure how MirrorMirror is going to be ...
--- End quote ---
None of us are... so we WAG our tonguesfingers! ;)
--- Quote from: Dina on August 11, 2024, 11:42:55 PM --- ... Is our Harry going to Mirror Universe or is Mirror Harry coming to our universe? ...
--- End quote ---
Well if we take the ST:TOS episode as the model, it'll be Mirror!Harry coming to Prime!Universe and Prime!Harry going to Mirror!Universe: that was Kirk &co's story.
In fact, it was much of the Bridge crew swapping... so it could be Harry+allies swapping, with a whole TeamEvil(tm) arriving in our Prime!Universe (& vice versa, of course)!
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on August 11, 2024, 09:39:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Mira on August 09, 2024, 01:02:33 PM ---I agree with all of this, and while yeah, it is a fantasy, as Murphy aged turning her into some kind of Wonder Woman/ Sage became more unrealistic.
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Except not:
The exceptionality of martial arts is very trope-y in fantasy, and fits well into the Dredenverse.
--- End quote ---
Except yes.
True, training, skill, and will can overcome limits of size and strength and age...to a point. To a very limited point.
The DV is urban fantasy, yes, but JB has made it relatively gritty urban fantasy in many ways. Yeah, there's magic, Fae, various kinds of vampire, etc., but at the same time, combat is deadly, nasty things happen, and there are realistic limits to a lot of things. Karrin's unarmed combat abilities were already straining things even back several books ago.
We had a discussion on the old forum about the problem of Murphy's height once, I remember. Believability of her combat abilities was already straining because of her stated height. Size and strength absolutely do matter in a fight, contrary to movies and TV, and Karrin's ability at aikido and related skills was already pushing the WSOD of some readers.
High martial arts skill or not, in the vast majority of cases, if a woman Karrin's size fights a man Hendrick's size and power unarmed, she is going to lose. Badly. Possibly cripplingly/lethally. Training and skill and experience can offset that...some. But only to a limited degree.
(Is it possible for a woman Karrin's size to overcome a man with Hendrick's size and strength in hand to hand? Yes. In principle. It's very improbable in practice. It could happen occasionally if the woman is very skilled and the guy is careless or untrained. But it's more plausible for the high skill tiny girl to cripple/kill the big guy than to pin him without hurting him. But Karrin did that sort of capture regularly.)
That's against mortal foes. It's much worse against superbeings.
Karrin's age was becoming an issue for believability, too. Karrin was almost certainly some years older than Harry, and Harry is somewhere around 50. Granted she kept herself in superb shape, but it's still an issue. 55 or 56 is not 35, much less 20.
(In Storm Front, Harry was mid-20s. Karrin was already an experienced cop at that time, and had to be old enough to have been married and divorced twice. Granted her first marriage was very young, but she still pretty much has to be older than Harry.)
So there again was a reason I knew JB was going to have to power her up, kill her off, or put her on a bus. Time was catching up to her. Ignoring the effects of age, on top of already winking at the problem of her height, would really have strained things.
(I suspect, if JB had the whole series to do over, Karrin would be at least average female height, maybe closer to Gard's height. That would have helped a lot in the believability metrics for her combat skills.)
--- Quote from: g33k on August 09, 2024, 05:51:45 PM ---Yeah.
To be clear: no merely "vanilla" human is capable of "keeping up" with the essentially superhuman world Harry now inhabits & operates within.
--- End quote ---
That's not 100% true, there are ways for a baseline human to play in that league believably...but all of them kind of go against Karrin's personality and background.
For ex, imagine a Karrin who trained her marksmanship up to the high end, and studied the vulnerabilities of various races of monsters and vampires. Then she takes them out from a distance with a rifle and carefully prepared and selected ammo, as an assassin-style operative with a support group.
The Chicago guardians were sort of such a group, but to keep up in Harry's world, Karrin would have to be a lot more ruthless than she has been, and prepared to cross a lot of line she never was before.
Imagine a Karrin who always carries a knife, and who instead of going for the pin, her first reaction to hostile contact is to slide that knife into a vital organ, going for the kill. Imagine a Karrin who became very good at ambush kills. A Karrin who gathered intel on the various players, and used it to blackmail one power player to help her against another.
She probably had the brains to do that. She had the will. She never lacked for courage, if anything she had too much of that last. But would such a Karrin still be Harry's Karrin? She'd be more like Kincaid's dream girl, wouldn't she? Or a candidate for Marcone's lieutenant?
But I can't see any way she could remain basically a cop (disgraced or not) and a major player in Harry's life at the same time.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: g33k on August 11, 2024, 07:31:07 PM ---No matter how good a man he is, I don't think Michel is in any position to offer multi-dimensional alternate-reality info to Harry. ;)
Unless you're suggesting an afterlife-Michael?
I'm kinda-sorta expecting Mirror,Mirror to have a redeemed Marcone: with Mirror!Harry no longer Fighting the Good Fight, Marcone will increasingly have needed to stand up for those few principles (e.g. "no kids") he has, alienating most of the other Bad Guys and forcing Marcone deeper into the Good Guy camp. Our Harry!Prime will give Marcone one of the Swords (probably Amoracchius), and further complicate Harry's feelings towards Marcone!Prime: he's actually really close to being a viable KotC!
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't be 100% shocked if our time line's Marcone someday ends up as a Knight. The more so because he has a Coin, oddly enough.
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