The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I just had a funny idea (serious spoilers for BG, just in case)
Dina:
We know there is chance of Murphy coming back, but I was thinking. What if Jim finds a way to have Susan's back instead? Of course, the obvious way would be to bring Mirror Susan to Harry's prime universe, but I was thinking it would be better to find a way to resurrect the woman who gave her life for her child (and Harry). Of course, resurrection would normally be a no-no, but with so many supernatural entities around, who can say it is impossible?
Let me be clear, I am not such a fan of Susan, but it would be so good for Maggie Jr. and Harry to have her back. And the dynamics would be very interesting.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Dina on August 08, 2024, 09:32:11 PM ---We know there is chance of Murphy coming back,
--- End quote ---
But whether she actually will or not, I don't know.
I predicted on the forums, years ago, back when JB was still insisting that he had no plans to either write Murphy out, kill her off, or power her up, that he would at some point in the not too distant future be forced to write Murphy out, kill her off, or power her up.
That was no particular prescience on my part, just a recognition that as the story advanced and changed and the stakes kept rising, Karrin wasn't keeping up. Back in the early books, when Harry was basically a small-time Chanderlesque PI who happened to possess magic, she fit in perfectly. In those stories all the usual character roles of a Chandler-style PI story were present.
Harry the hard-boiled PI (though he wasn't hard-boiled yet back then, one interesting thing about the Dresden Files is that we're getting to see the hard boiling process play out, rather than meet the protagonist after he's already case hardened). He had the usual money problems, bad luck with relationships, etc.
Marcone was the local mob boss. Karrin was the cop he interacted with most often, usually as an ally but sometimes as an opponent. The 'scope' of the stories was mostly Chicago, local. It was a variation on the classic Chandler formula.
But as time passed, Harry grew into a global level major player, with major influence. The scope of the story reached world-wide levels many books ago. The players now are national governments, militaries, ancient conspiracies, archangels and gods.
Marcone grew with the story, becoming a freeholding lord, a Denarian, etc. Karrin just didn't. By the time of Skin Game, when Harry recruits her as his gun moll for the upcoming operation, the problem had become acute. Harry simply needed higher power help than Karrin could provide, I suspect that's part of the meta reason why JB brought Michael back temporarily.
So I wasn't a bit surprised by her death. I knew a long time ago that JB was going to have to change his plans, he either had to sideline Karrin, power her up, or kill her off. He might have done both the latter in one stroke, but I knew he wasn't going to be able to keep her as was, because the DF is no longer a Chandler-esque PI story.
What I'm getting at with all this is that while I can certainly imagine ways to bring Karrin back into the story, ways that could fit with the setting...I'm not 100% sure JB is going to do it. If she comes back as a Valkyrie, she's not really quite Harry's Karrin anymore. If she comes back as human Karrin, it's both another 'death is cheap' moment (and too much of that wrecks any story) and recreates the previous problems.
--- Quote ---but I was thinking. What if Jim finds a way to have Susan's back instead? Of course, the obvious way would be to bring Mirror Susan to Harry's prime universe, but I was thinking it would be better to find a way to resurrect the woman who gave her life for her child (and Harry). Of course, resurrection would normally be a no-no, but with so many supernatural entities around, who can say it is impossible?
Let me be clear, I am not such a fan of Susan, but it would be so good for Maggie Jr. and Harry to have her back. And the dynamics would be very interesting.
--- End quote ---
But I so hope not.
I think I said once before that when I heard that there was going to be a 'parallel time' story, when I heard Bob tell Harry that Spiderman is real somewhere, I actually physically winced. I've seen parallel time stories go sour so many times, and they create so many continuity and 'stakes' headaches, that I literally dread them.
I have seen good ones, but they're very much the exception. The old original Star Trek episode Mirror Mirror, was a good one. The Trek novel Dark Mirror, written by Diane Duane, was done as a nextgen sequel to that episode, and it was good, too. But the stuff the actual DS9 and other Trek shows did with the mirror universe was ghastly.
The trouble with parallel time is that it removes stakes. That is, if Character A dies, well...so what? If you have the necessary magic/tech to reach parallel time lines, and there are an infinite number of such, then somewhere Character A2, A3, A4, etc. are still alive. Your wife/husband died? Well, somewhere Out There in alternity, he/she is still alive, single, and waiting for you. Don't like how the last election turned out? Don't like how the last war turned out? If you can access alternity, somewhere there's a world that's exactly what you wish for.
Sweating over a hard decision? Well, just think, you're going to choose every option, on some time line. Get married/stay single? You're gonna do both. Quit your boring job and take a risk on your dream career, or play it safe? You're gonna do both. And so on.
The multiverse is already messing up the Marvel movies, in a big way.
I've learned to have a lot of faith in JB from experience. Several times he's made writing choices that worried me, and turned out to be good. So I'm not panicked...but the alternate-reality story is the one I'm looking forward to least, the one part of me still sort of dreads.
Dina:
I agree in pretty much all what you said, except that when you said "If she comes back as a Valkyrie, she's not really quite Harry's Karrin anymore" I said "so what?". I see no problem with Karin changing.
I miss the Chandleresque era a lot. I mean, yes, the badass Winter Knight is fun to read, but I miss the old feeling. And it is true Karin was becoming a problem. There was also the age factor.
About Susan, I said having the Mirror Susan would be the easier way but I would like it better if JB finds a way to resurrect Prime Susan. So basically agree with you again. I hope Jim did not bring anyone from the Mirror Universe.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I predicted on the forums, years ago, back when JB was still insisting that he had no plans to either write Murphy out, kill her off, or power her up, that he would at some point in the not too distant future be forced to write Murphy out, kill her off, or power her up.
That was no particular prescience on my part, just a recognition that as the story advanced and changed and the stakes kept rising, Karrin wasn't keeping up. Back in the early books, when Harry was basically a small-time Chanderlesque PI who happened to possess magic, she fit in perfectly. In those stories all the usual character roles of a Chandler-style PI story were present.
--- End quote ---
I agree with all of this, and while yeah, it is a fantasy, as Murphy aged turning her into some kind of Wonder Woman/ Sage became more unrealistic. As I have said before, in my opinion when Jim removed her from the police force, it was the beginning and the end of the character.
--- Quote ---I have seen good ones, but they're very much the exception. The old original Star Trek episode Mirror Mirror, was a good one. The Trek novel Dark Mirror, written by Diane Duane, was done as a nextgen sequel to that episode, and it was good, too. But the stuff the actual DS9 and other Trek shows did with the mirror universe was ghastly.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, and Dark Mirror by Diane Duane is one of my favorite Trek novels, I think the problem is one can go to the same well one too many times. When something isn't broke you don't fix it, and reworking it too many times will break it!
--- Quote ---I've learned to have a lot of faith in JB from experience. Several times he's made writing choices that worried me, and turned out to be good. So I'm not panicked...but the alternate-reality story is the one I'm looking forward to least, the one part of me still sort of dreads.
--- End quote ---
Same here, the only thing I can think of is Chandler disappearing either will be the excuse for or be someone Harry rescues in the other dimension and he will become Harry's new bud.. In my opinion this was telegraphed by Chandler sending signals to Harry when he meets the Wardens on the way back from the Raith Estate in Peace Talks to be on his guard when confronted by Carlos and company. Then in the battle with Drakul, of the Wardens who weren't killed outright or saved for conversion to vamps, he was the only one that was sent "somewhere else," i.e. another dimension. Last but not least, Harry's falling out with Carlos, if I am right, saving Chandler will either put Harry in good stead with Carlos again, or all of the above will now make Chandler suspect, and he will leave the Wardens and join Harry as his right hand man... Or in the spirit of the tin foil hat, Harry will convince Titania to make Chandler her Summer Knight so they can really team up in the coming BAT.
g33k:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on August 09, 2024, 04:13:17 AM --- ... as the story advanced and changed and the stakes kept rising, Karrin wasn't keeping up. Back in the early books, when Harry was basically a small-time Chanderlesque PI who happened to possess magic, she fit in perfectly ...
--- End quote ---
Yeah.
To be clear: no merely "vanilla" human is capable of "keeping up" with the essentially superhuman world Harry now inhabits & operates within. Hell, Harry has a whole pack of werewolves who are now too weak for Harry's comfort.
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on August 09, 2024, 04:13:17 AM --- ... a 'parallel time' story ... Star Trek episode Mirror Mirror, was a good one ...
I've learned to have a lot of faith in JB from experience. Several times he's made writing choices that worried me, and turned out to be good. So I'm not panicked...but the alternate-reality story is the one I'm looking forward to least, the one part of me still sort of dreads.
--- End quote ---
IIRC, Jim has titled his Mirror,Mirror book in explicit homage to the ST:TOS episode, & seems to be leaning-in further; I think it's a primary influence. The other big influence, I think, is the old Jimmy Stewart vehicle, It's a Wonderful Life; there's the explicitly-identical conceit of "get to see how things would have played out differently, with this one little change..."
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version