The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry is a Dad...Again..😳
Mira:
--- Quote from: Dina on June 14, 2024, 11:13:42 PM ---I do not think that is possible. Changes, Ghost Story and Cold Days are the books I reread the less, so I may be misremembering, but I think Harry made a clause that Mab cannot just ordering him around. No puppeteer. And for Murphy Harry will have the will power to resist the mantle or whatever. Marrying someone for political reasons can be argued as a part of the WK obligations, but I do not think that includes being raped. And being forced to have sex unwillingly is rape. Also, if Mab forced him to do something like that, Harry would be rebellious all the way, useless to her.
But even more important, I think Mab is not aware of the protection. Once (if) she realizes that is the case, she won't force Harry to break it. She has shown respect for Murphy and for Harry's feelings about her.
And yes, your scenario for Harry evading the wedding is quite probable.
--- End quote ---
I agree, Harry's protection from Susan lasted for years to Lara's shock and her burn back in White Night when they kissed. Harry apparently didn't any relations with a woman in all of that time. It wasn't until he had that affair with Luccio did he begin to have relations again and his protection went away. I don't see Harry having casual sex with anyone so he could have relations with Lara, unless he cared for her in that way. I also doubt that, though possible I guess, that Lara could arrange for Harry to be raped.
vincentric:
--- Quote from: Dina on June 14, 2024, 11:13:42 PM ---I do not think that is possible. Changes, Ghost Story and Cold Days are the books I reread the less, so I may be misremembering, but I think Harry made a clause that Mab cannot just ordering him around. No puppeteer. And for Murphy Harry will have the will power to resist the mantle or whatever. Marrying someone for political reasons can be argued as a part of the WK obligations, but I do not think that includes being raped. And being forced to have sex unwillingly is rape. Also, if Mab forced him to do something like that, Harry would be rebellious all the way, useless to her.
But even more important, I think Mab is not aware of the protection. Once (if) she realizes that is the case, she won't force Harry to break it. She has shown respect for Murphy and for Harry's feelings about her.
And yes, your scenario for Harry evading the wedding is quite probable.
--- End quote ---
Having just reread Changes, Mab can order Harry into bed with someone. The only condition he set was that she does not command him to raise his hand against his loved ones. But I don't think she wants to force him. As she said at the end of Battle Ground, she has buried many lovers, but the fight must be fought still. In her roundabout, tough love fae way, Mab is telling him to grieve, but to get back on the horse. She is probably aware of the protection, but expects Harry, Lara and Molly to figure a way around it especially since Harry works better when given a task and allowed to complete it in his own manner.
Mira:
--- Quote from: vincentric on June 15, 2024, 01:57:13 PM ---Having just reread Changes, Mab can order Harry into bed with someone. The only condition he set was that she does not command him to raise his hand against his loved ones. But I don't think she wants to force him. As she said at the end of Battle Ground, she has buried many lovers, but the fight must be fought still. In her roundabout, tough love fae way, Mab is telling him to grieve, but to get back on the horse. She is probably aware of the protection, but expects Harry, Lara and Molly to figure a way around it especially since Harry works better when given a task and allowed to complete it in his own manner.
--- End quote ---
Mab maybe able to order him to bed with someone, but he cannot force him to have sex! Erections are often connected to emotions and attitude, so if Harry doesn't wanna, I don't see it happening.. Yeah, maybe with lots of stimulation, drugs, spells, hypnosis perhaps, but that kind of gets into whether it was involuntary, which is something we've discussed before, though it's been a long time.. If it is rape or otherwise involuntary, does it destroy the original protection? My thinking is it wouldn't, if fidelity is the basis of the protection. Since true love seems to be tied into the protection, fidelity must be part of it.
Dina:
--- Quote from: vincentric on June 15, 2024, 01:57:13 PM ---Having just reread Changes, Mab can order Harry into bed with someone. The only condition he set was that she does not command him to raise his hand against his loved ones. But I don't think she wants to force him. As she said at the end of Battle Ground, she has buried many lovers, but the fight must be fought still. In her roundabout, tough love fae way, Mab is telling him to grieve, but to get back on the horse. She is probably aware of the protection, but expects Harry, Lara and Molly to figure a way around it especially since Harry works better when given a task and allowed to complete it in his own manner.
--- End quote ---
Ah yes, my favourite old theory about that loophole. (Mab is going to ask Harry to kill her, without realizing that after several years serving her, Harry loves her (not in the romantical sense!). So, Harry will be free of the obligations of the WK. Another option, that was not available before, is that Murphy comes back looking different and for some reason Mab, without knowing who she is, asks Harry to kill/destroy her, Instant freedom for Harry and nor him nor Mab would know why.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 15, 2024, 03:28:25 PM --- ... Erections are often connected to emotions and attitude, so if Harry doesn't wanna, I don't see it happening.. Yeah, maybe with lots of stimulation, drugs, spells, hypnosis perhaps ...
--- End quote ---
The only needed "drug" is already in Harry's system: the hyper-sexual & hyper-aggressive WK Mantle.
Harry has been able to keep it mostly under control (tho he broke some of Andi's ribs, I think, in Cold Days; and almost murdered Rudy in Battle Ground).
Harry does "wanna" (kind of a lot!) but doesn't often act on those wants (and never casually) because he makes a conscious decision not to... often in the face of extreme/supernatural provocation.
Mab could well eliminate that decision-making step, within the bounds of Winter Law and her specific bargain with Harry.
But, as I said: I don't think Jim is going to write it that way; that's how the rules of the Dresdenverse would work out if he wrote that situation, but I'm pretty sure he'll write something different.
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