The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Does Thomas get a free pass?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 15, 2024, 07:24:21 PM --- ... I don't think Kringle is subject to anyone, I think Kringle is merely another aspect of Odin's mantle...
--- End quote ---
No, he told Harry that he was meeting him (IIRC in Changes) as Kringle specifically because Harry had called as the Winter Knight, that Kringle was part of Winter, and that if Mab had wanted service from Vadderung he'd have told her to make an appointment just like any other customer.
Kringle is subject to Mab.
Mab doesn't usually push the issue because Vadderung -- and Odin! -- are not subject to Mab, and Mab really doesn't want to make an enemy there.
Mira:
--- Quote ---No, he told Harry that he was meeting him (IIRC in Changes) as Kringle specifically because Harry had called as the Winter Knight, that Kringle was part of Winter, and that if Mab had wanted service from Vadderung he'd have told her to make an appointment just like any other customer.
--- End quote ---
You got your books mixed up. In Changes Harry meets with Vadderung, but in Skin Game as Winter Knight he meets him in Mac's Bar as Kringle. I also think it is a bit more complicated, page 372 Skin Game
--- Quote ---Vadderung is a complicated guy.
"But you and Kringle are the same person," I said.
"Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body," he replied.
"That's just a fiction,"I said, " a little game of protocol."
""Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom one does not get along famously well. It can be tedious but generally is less trouble than a duel would be."
--- End quote ---
No mention of mantles when it comes to Vadderung/Odin/Kringle, I do find it an interesting passage. Yes, a page or two later Harry mentions that he and Kringle are both members of the Winter Court, but the above passage implies to me at any rate that Kringle is a member of the Winter Court out of curtsy to Mab, not as her subject, nor does he really get along with her, but out of respect.
--- Quote ---Kringle is subject to Mab.
Mab doesn't usually push the issue because Vadderung -- and Odin! -- are not subject to Mab, and Mab really doesn't want to make an enemy there.
--- End quote ---
Kringle is subject to Mab legally but he alsoisn't because he is also Odin in the same body, or as Harry put it, " a little game of protocol." This arrangement apparently keeps the peace.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 16, 2024, 03:44:44 AM --- ... Kringle is subject to Mab legally but he alsoisn't because he is also Odin in the same body, or as Harry put it, " a little game of protocol." This arrangement apparently keeps the peace.
--- End quote ---
The "legalities" within Faerie are quite absolute.
Legally-outmaneuver a faerie and they will do something they absolutely HATE having to do.
And the Kringlemantle is Fae.
Kringle thus has to obey Mab.
Odin does not have to obey her... Odin seems able to put on & take off the Kringlemantle at will (tricky sort, Odin; just as much so as Mab, really).
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on March 16, 2024, 11:49:25 PM ---The "legalities" within Faerie are quite absolute.
Legally-outmaneuver a faerie and they will do something they absolutely HATE having to do.
And the Kringlemantle is Fae.
Kringle thus has to obey Mab.
Odin does not have to obey her... Odin seems able to put on & take off the Kringlemantle at will (tricky sort, Odin; just as much so as Mab, really).
--- End quote ---
Notice that Kringle uses the word "protocol" As defined;
--- Quote ---What's the difference between protocol and etiquette?
Is Etiquette the Same as Manners? What about Protocol and ...
While Etiquette & Manners involve the rules of politeness and compassion among people in a social setting, Protocol comprises the set of rules associated with formalities, ceremonial events and official occasions involving nations and their representatives; as well as functions or formal procedures related to ...
--- End quote ---
Kringle doesn't use the word mantle anywhere when he describes himself.. Nor does he mention putting on or taking off a mantle..
--- Quote ---Legally speaking, Kringle and Vadderung are two entirely different people who simply happen to reside in the same body," he replied
--- End quote ---
So no, I don't think Kringle is a Fae. Just a guess, but I think under the Accords protocol, Odin as Kringle is a member of the
Winter Court. He does have to obey certain rules under protocol, but I doubt that Mab under those same protocols can
force Kringle to do anything, nor can Kringle do what he wants.. As Kringle explains...
--- Quote --- "That's just a fiction,"I said, " a little game of protocol."
""Little games of protocol are how one shows respect, especially to those with whom one does not get along famously well. It can be tedious but generally is less trouble than a duel would be."
--- End quote ---
g33k:
Odin isn't Fae.
The Kringlemantle is:
--- Quote ---Is Kringle Fae?
His mantle, yes, is part of the Winter Court. Which does not necessarily mean that he himself is Fae as much as the fact that his mantle is. While he’s there, he’s got to pay deference to Mab. If Mab gives him a command, he has to obey it.
--- End quote ---
-- https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/... Search for "Kringle" on the page
Just like Harry himself isn't Fae, but the WK mantel is.
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