The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Does Thomas get a free pass?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 12, 2024, 11:26:41 AM ---Do you have the WOJ on that? It isn't that I don't doubt you, I just haven't seen it...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote --- ... She could rip that thing right out of Thomas. Not that there would be much of Thomas left after she was done. Mab’s not particularly gentle that way. It’s possible that there might be some way to get out of it, maybe, but what fun would that be?
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https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-the-fae/
--- Quote from: Mira on March 12, 2024, 11:26:41 AM --- ... this reads like two different cases to me. Alfred doing it may seem Mab-ish, but it doesn't follow that it would have the same effect as if Mab had done it.. I keep returning to the image of the soul gaze in Blood Rites, the slight vanilla human fighting and losing the fight to the Hunger Demon ...
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It absolutely is two separate cases. But AFAIK, the "Mab case" is the only one we know of where Jim has said yes, that power could remove a whampire's hunger demon.
It's just that -- of the two of them -- I'd pick Mab as being more subtle & discriminating, more capable of being subtle and discriminating. Alfred tends not to do very much, but... when he does what he does it's big & potent and not at all subtle.
I'm not even clear Alfred is capable of noticing any difference between Thomas & his demon.
Stomp on an entity trying to breach the Well's security.
At the Warden's command, commit an entity to the Well.
Filter through the soul of a whampire whose Hunger Demon has been there since birth? Support said soul, as he performs psychic surgery to separate them? It just doesn't say "Alfred" to me.
Molly, now... Molly's an apt one to consider.
I could see a screwed-up plot-arc where Molly thinks the Lara/Harry romance deserves being "balanced" with a Thomas/Molly romance; both whampire & wizard.
Mira:
Thank you for the quote for starters.
--- Quote ---... She could rip that thing right out of Thomas. Not that there would be much of Thomas left after she was done. Mab’s not particularly gentle that way. It’s possible that there might be some way to get out of it, maybe, but what fun would that be?
--- End quote ---
To me it says two things, 1] that yes, if it suited her, Mab would rip it right out of Thomas without consideration for him. Remember when she threatened Harry with making Thomas her Knight? Consider, would Mab want a White Court Vampire as her Winter Knight given the White Court has it's own agenda? No, I don't think so.. She also said since he was in love it made him "human" enough for her purpose. 2] Jim said the character would no longer be fun if Thomas became fully human. I don't see a date on the quote, so I don't know when he said it or what he was planning for Thomas at that time. However having Thomas locked up on Demonreach isn't much fun either is it? Jim also says, "there might be a way," so here is a way, let Alfred do it, and a very human Thomas who wants his love and child back might turn out to be a lot of fun indeed at this stage of the series.
--- Quote ---It absolutely is two separate cases. But AFAIK, the "Mab case" is the only one we know of where Jim has said yes, that power could remove a whampire's hunger demon.
--- End quote ---
Aside from it being possibly burned out by true love before it has made it's first kill. At this point, this is the only one, but odd don't you think that Jim went to all that elaborate effort to put Thomas in prison on Demonreach reliving his murders and exposed to the "British Prisoner"?
--- Quote ---I'm not even clear Alfred is capable of noticing any difference between Thomas & his demon.
--- End quote ---
I disagree, I think Merlin gave Alfred more awareness than you think he has, if not, there would have been huge problems during the long time periods when there was no Warden for the island.
--- Quote ---Filter through the soul of a whampire whose Hunger Demon has been there since birth? Support said soul, as he performs psychic surgery to separate them? It just doesn't say "Alfred" to me.
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However Thomas has already shown his soul to be more human than vampire on several occasions much to the dismay of Lara. Yes, I think Alfred is very capable of separating the monster from the human..
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 13, 2024, 12:23:45 PM --- ... I don't see a date on the quote, so I don't know when he said it or what he was planning for Thomas at that time.
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"2011 Naperville Signing" (says the WoJ document, about that quote).
It's a very good point, however, that Jim's ideas may have evolved in the dozen+ years since his off-the-cuff answers at a live event.
--- Quote from: Mira on March 13, 2024, 12:23:45 PM --- ... However having Thomas locked up on Demonreach isn't much fun either is it? ...
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But it's very very convenient, for the author... maybe he doesn't want to deal with Thomas for a book or three.
Mira:
--- Quote ---"2011 Naperville Signing" (says the WoJ document, about that quote).
It's a very good point, however, that Jim's ideas may have evolved in the dozen+ years since his off-the-cuff answers at a live event.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the date! Ghost Story was published in 2011, in that we have the scene where Justine brings home a girlfriend to have sex with so I imagine she and Thomas can have sex. That brings about big changes in the life of Thomas that climax in what happened in Peace Talks and Battle Ground. So the Thomas Jim was talking about up until that point isn't the same one we see now.
--- Quote ---But it's very very convenient, for the author... maybe he doesn't want to deal with Thomas for a book or three.
--- End quote ---
I think that is a good guess, and I agree, but I also think it bodes for big changes for Thomas. That's why I think somehow he will become fully human if he survives imprisonment. Otherwise why bother? Why go through all of that for Thomas to return basically the same White Court Vampire that is Harry's brother? I mean if he wanted to that, he could have left him a prisoner of the Elves, getting though a trial, maybe remaining in prison, but without the torment of reliving his crimes that he is undergoing now. Thomas may even beg to have the demon removed even if it may kill him to do it. It does set up conflict between Harry and Lara, she won't stand for Thomas remaining in limbo for very long, nor will she be very happy and could very well blame Harry if Thomas rejects his vampire status. I don't see any other future for Thomas that makes sense if Jim wasn't going to kill him off outright. I am also not all that excited about conflict between Thomas and Eb, though it will be useful in explaining what Eb's vendetta against vampires is all about.. But why so elaborate?
vincentric:
Lara may be anxious about Thomas, but she won't blame Harry for his condition. She's very practical, does love her family and realizes that not only did Harry not cause this injury to Thomas, but that she forced Harry into considerable danger in saving Thomas' life from the Svartalves and hiding him on the island.
I also think Thomas can remain a vampire and still wield a Sword. We've already seen Susan use one on a mission of love to save her daughter. Thomas can use the same Sword of Love to save the souls of Justine and his child. What happens after that is open. Perhaps prolonged exposure to the Sword will change the nature of his demon. Or maybe he's only a Knight for that mission since we've been told that being a long-term sword wielder is not the normal. Maybe they get rid of Papa Raith and Thomas becomes the new White King and Lara becomes Harry's sidekick.
I'm sure all these guesses are wrong but until Jim tells the story, WAGs are all we've got.
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