The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

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forumghost:

--- Quote from: SerScot on December 21, 2023, 03:29:43 PM ---Agreed.  What changed… for Dumorne to see a need to change his methods?

--- End quote ---

My personal theory is that since we now know hhwb wasn't sent by Justin, he was sent for him.

Which meant that Justin (who had hijacked Maggie's Starborn plan for his own ends) needed Harry and Elaine ready early, which meant abandoning traditional brainwashing/conditioning in favour of Magical alternatives.

Unfortunately for him, hhwb was able to turn Justin's anti-outsider wmd against him.

SerScot:

--- Quote from: forumghost on December 21, 2023, 11:49:52 PM ---My personal theory is that since we now know hhwb wasn't sent by Justin, he was sent for him.

Which meant that Justin (who had hijacked Maggie's Starborn plan for his own ends) needed Harry and Elaine ready early, which meant abandoning traditional brainwashing/conditioning in favour of Magical alternatives.

Unfortunately for him, hhwb was able to turn Justin's anti-outsider wmd against him.

--- End quote ---


Perhaps.  We’ve been getting this story in fits and starts for 16 books.  I’m looking forward to seeing it told… fulsomely.

vincentric:
Well, since people want to pile on the Nemfected Elaine bandwagon elsewhere, how about this.

Elaine sent HWWB after Harry. Nemesis was done with getting them trained by Justin and was going to clean house. Harry was too strong willed and Justin was Mab's caretaker so they both had to go. Let the Walker kill Harry and then they both take out Justin while making it seem that they killed each other. then take off with Bob/Evil Bob and have Elaine do a Darkhallow or take over Demonreach or both and end it all.

g33k:

--- Quote from: forumghost on December 21, 2023, 11:49:52 PM ---My personal theory is that since we now know hhwb wasn't sent by Justin, he was sent for him...
--- End quote ---
I don't think we know that.
I don't think we know very much at all, really, about Justin DuMorne or the events surrounding Harry's & Elaine's separation from Justin.

It's still possible that Justin was a necromantic-skull-stealing, outsider-summoning, black-hearted villain.

At the opposite extreme, it's also possible he was out of his depth, but still trying to "do the Right Thing."

It is, IMO, most likely that the truth is something more complicated than either (simple) extreme.

The_Sibelis:
Just tin foil, don't ask lol, but I've begun to consider the mental confusion around the fights, the circumstances, what exactly happened and when... I think Justin was just HWWBH's meat suit in the end. So potentially it wasn't the gas station that banished him(unless the memetic timeline has been told to us wrong) Justin empowered and summoned hwwbh but... He didn't use the cosmic vending machine. He used his own magic to summon an outsider into the world... We don't know when or how many times he actually summoned him, how long he had such an ongoing relationship with him. But he created through magic and choice an outsider knight in the world. I think that changed him on a fundamental level, opening him up to future access. Similar to what happened with Molly, except reversed. He created something by synchrony that left him open to it.
My standard tinfoil theory is Justin was just another variant of Kemmler...(used to be Harry, but i realized..)To go along with my theory of the 7th Dresden and MM, and the usual mirroring of things... Harry learned from Kemmlers Bob how to do necromancy, leads to him learning how to do the body swap thing, leads to the same results.. the 7th version is greater than expected. Took out original Kemmlers, maybe stole a body along the way. And since the council hadn't twigged to two Kemmlers they really are quite sure they killed THAT one, which they intended to.
Why for either theory tho? It's been hinted/theorized at Kemmler might have been trying for a reincarnation.
So HWWBH or Alt Kemmler, both wanted Harry to
(click to show/hide)train up their 'replacements'

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