The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?

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The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: SerScot on December 19, 2023, 08:47:48 PM ---Even if she wasn’t enthralled he was planning to act against Harry.  Why… then?  Why the clumsy action with poor preparation?

--- End quote ---
Leah explained it perfectly imo, it's hard to get young wizards to believe in doing magical violence. Both dumorne and behind were more interested in manipulating Harry's choices than actually enthrallment or murder. Behind is shown heavily in book goading Harry(same as Cat Sith later 👀 ) but dumorne? Look at his scenes teaching magic, what he actually taught them. He could have indoctrinated them with their own power, made them believe it worked any which way he desired and connected them to him in a proper cult fashion. None of which he did. What he did was teach it to him pure, almost the same as Eb(I'd bet Eb would have been a harder teacher before failing Margaret), as power and strength, as an art unto itself.
Then he was goaded into two different(?) Battles to the death winning both by... Well, doing Death to the opponent. Seems to me they manipulated him into doing exactly as he did 🤷‍♂️ it's only factoring in Justin's intentions for Elaine that things get muddied.

Con:

--- Quote from: g33k on December 20, 2023, 08:02:28 PM ---I don't  think we have enough info.  Furthermore, what info we do have is highly-suspect:  every time Harry recalls the events or has a flashback, we see something very different.  We know harry was right off of a mental trauma, with consequent likely memory-issues.

What if it wasn't even communicated / collaborated between Justin & HWWB?  What if Justin wasn't in league with the Walker at all, but detected the Walker's arrival (much as Harry and Eb did the cornerhounds in Peace Talks) then panicked, and tried to force the Starborn wizard(s) to be ready...?

--- End quote ---

Yeah that could be it. It certainly seemed rushed after raising a pair of kids for 6 years.

SerScot:

--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on December 21, 2023, 05:07:19 AM --- Leah explained it perfectly imo, it's hard to get young wizards to believe in doing magical violence. Both dumorne and behind were more interested in manipulating Harry's choices than actually enthrallment or murder. Behind is shown heavily in book goading Harry(same as Cat Sith later 👀 ) but dumorne? Look at his scenes teaching magic, what he actually taught them. He could have indoctrinated them with their own power, made them believe it worked any which way he desired and connected them to him in a proper cult fashion. None of which he did. What he did was teach it to him pure, almost the same as Eb(I'd bet Eb would have been a harder teacher before failing Margaret), as power and strength, as an art unto itself.
Then he was goaded into two different(?) Battles to the death winning both by... Well, doing Death to the opponent. Seems to me they manipulated him into doing exactly as he did 🤷‍♂️ it's only factoring in Justin's intentions for Elaine that things get muddied.

--- End quote ---

Agreed.  What changed… for Dumorne to see a need to change his methods?

SerScot:

--- Quote from: Con on December 21, 2023, 12:32:11 PM ---Yeah that could be it. It certainly seemed rushed after raising a pair of kids for 6 years.

--- End quote ---

Indeed… that is what prompted my question.

g33k:
I'll re-introduce my own WAG here... part of which is that Justin isn't (necessarily(*)) the "evil wizard" Harry thinks he is.

He's "old-school" and harsh, for sure... fastball baseballs as shield-training, &c.  But the mover & shaker in this was Mab(**).

She knew the Starborn Cycle was cresting, and that Outsiders would be making a special push.  Mab wanted a Starborn as Knight (and likely in other roles too), so she "arranged" for Maggie LeFay to:

* "discover" the Starborn cycle & hints of a "starbabe"plan
* "accidentally" meet the Leanansidhe on multiple occasions, sufficient for Maggie to think of Lea when she needed a protector for HarryThen she stepped in when Malcolm died, to hide Harry from everyone searching (foreshadowed, story-wise, by Morgan being anti-scry'ed by Summer)... until Harry's gifts showed, and it was time to get him trained.

Then -- and this is where it gets relevant to this thread -- she got Justin to do the training (either by tricking him, or as repayment for debts-incurred); note how Justin's "harsh" training was often thematically-similar to a "Winter"-driven harsh training.


(*) Critical counter-datum on the "Justin is evil" front:  taking Kemmler's "EvilBob lab-assistant" skull as his own, hiding it from the WC (***)
(**) Mab and/or her handmaid, Lea

(***) On the third hand, I'll introduce another WAG -- Bob isn't really "afraid" of Mab/Winter; he's an active _agent_ of Winter, one of Mab's spies amongst mortal wizards / the White Council.  Justin, in this analysis, rescued the skull on the orders of Mab (much as Harry got the Word of Kemmer on Mavra's orders):  Mab got the skull to Justin so that he could get it to Maggie's Starbabe (which plan was already underway at the time of the final Kemmler-fight) in a way that didn't even hint at a faerie affiliation.

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