The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Fae Rankings
The_Sibelis:
I think four and five mish mash a bit. It's named beings who may hold a mantle but are well known in their own identity too. Older beings. I don't think they're stronger than the lady any more than most of the senior council can absolutely trounce Harry in a fight, but are technically weaker than his brute ability.
Perhaps it's also a bit of fae semantics, the lady has her own court with her own attendants under the Queen as her vassal. Not all vassals are automatically members of the court. That usually just denotes people invited to stay in the capital as part of the courts retinue.
If threes are dukes 4-5(which only exists to represent the new ladies being underpowered compared to older fae imo) both represent Earldom.
The only proper Lady we've seen in action would be Aurora I think, Maeve couldn't even concentrate a simple binding against her own knight without leaking energy everywhere. Victim of her own sloth.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 14, 2023, 04:49:26 PM --- That would imply an actual physical block to them breaking the rules.. As in, "the Fae cannot lie," because there is a physical block against it in their brains. I don't think that is so clear, because we've seen both Lea and Mab twist things so while yeah you cannot say they are lying, they aren't exactly telling the truth either.
--- End quote ---
@Mira -- You keep going back to this, as a thesis. I've seen you return to it over and over.
But the Fae are entirely letter-of-the-law... there is no such thing, to them, as "the spirit of the law." If it's not technically a lie, then (to the fae) it's not a lie ... not in any way, shape, or form.
Is it "fair"? No.
Is it "just"? No.
Is it "truthful"? No.
But "cannot tell a lie" is entirely different from "must tell the truth."
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 14, 2023, 04:49:26 PM ---... What was up with Aurora while something they'd notice, they leave dealing with it up to the Queens, Mothers don't have time to micromanage...
--- End quote ---
I think it goes beyond mere "micromanaging." They said Aurora was planning something that "must not be" (n.b. "must"), and yet they let it all advance to the point of open warfare, leaving both Queens ignorant. The Queens had summoned the Overworld above Chicago, manifested the Stone Table (a necessary step for Aurora's plan to succeed); Aurora had brought the SK-mantle to the Table, and only Harry and his "ragtag band" was in her way.
With an existential threat to the balance of the Courts, a hint to one or both of the Queens seems like it might be appropriate...? Yet evidently they couldn't. They spent a good long while, actually, chatting with Harry. Faster and easier (and safer!!!) for each Mother to have let the respective Queen know the skinny, before those two threw their semiannual "turning of the seasons" shindig!
Instead, they let a crazed (& Nemfected!) Summer Lady haul the Knight-Mantle & a sacrificial knife to the Stone Table, and left it to Harry and his (admittedly clever) plans to save both courts. That's a lot of risk to put onto Harry Dresden's shoulders... if they could have let the Queens know, they would have.
Mira:
--- Quote ---But the Fae are entirely letter-of-the-law... there is no such thing, to them, as "the spirit of the law." If it's not technically a lie, then (to the fae) it's not a lie ... not in any way, shape, or form.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for making my point!!! ;D It is also the reason why you should never bargain with the Fae!!!! ;) It is all about their perception of what is true, not what actually is untrue, ergo a lie, but as long as they believe they are telling the truth by their lights, it isn't a lie! ::) However if you bargain with the Fae with the belief that they will be fair to you since they cannot lie, oops, you just got screwed... ::) As Harry has found out trying to deal with Mab.
--- Quote ---I think it goes beyond mere "micromanaging." They said Aurora was planning something that "must not be" (n.b. "must"), and yet they let it all advance to the point of open warfare, leaving both Queens ignorant. The Queens had summoned the Overworld above Chicago, manifested the Stone Table (a necessary step for Aurora's plan to succeed); Aurora had brought the SK-mantle to the Table, and only Harry and his "ragtag band" was in her way.
--- End quote ---
But they did have it in hand, didn't they. Somehow Harry just happened to make his way to their cottage where he was given the unraveling... You think it an accident that Mab shows up in his office in the early chapter telling him she just took over his contract from his godmother?
--- Quote ---With an existential threat to the balance of the Courts, a hint to one or both of the Queens seems like it might be appropriate...? Yet evidently they couldn't. They spent a good long while, actually, chatting with Harry. Faster and easier (and safer!!!) for each Mother to have let the respective Queen know the skinny, before those two threw their semiannual "turning of the seasons" shindig!
--- End quote ---
You aren't thinking big picture, it is as much a test of the star born Harry Dresden who might at the BAT be the kingpin to success over the Outside, as stopping catastrophe when the seasons turn . The Mothers needed to get to know who this mortal is because a lot rides on him. You will also remember on their second meeting with Harry in Cold Days, Mother Summer took him to the Outer Gates, so he may learn.
--- Quote ---nstead, they let a crazed (& Nemfected!) Summer Lady haul the Knight-Mantle & a sacrificial knife to the Stone Table, and left it to Harry and his (admittedly clever) plans to save both courts. That's a lot of risk to put onto Harry Dresden's shoulders... if they could have let the Queens know, they would have.
--- End quote ---
Could they have? Really? Lets go back to when Mab tells Harry that the Summer Knight has been murdered and the Summer Court was holding her responsible. Why in the heck would Mab go to an obscure wizard detective in Chicago to save her hide? Or that Titania would have believed that her infected daughter was behind it? It wasn't obvious to her that her daughter was infected in the first place... No, it took a neutral party for all the elements of the conspiracy to be rooted out, that took detective work. As the saying goes, "God helps those who help themselves.." Does God not help because He is weak? Or there are things we have to work out for ourselves, with His help. In this case the Mothers help, but only when the lessor Fae, and a certain wizard help themselves first.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 14, 2023, 04:49:26 PM --- ... Mab is simply more assertive than Titania and applies it differently perhaps because it is her Court's turn to guard the Gates.
However lets not forget that was the millennia roles around Titania will once again have her turn at doing the guarding.
--- End quote ---
I do not think Summer & Winter take turns on the Outer Gates.
Before it was the Fae, it was one of the Pagan pantheons; I'm pretty sure there's WoJ to the effect that both the Norse and the Greek pantheons had turns, and I presume an older one (Egyptian? Sumerian?) before that.
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