The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Q&A Fantasyfestival 2023 in Esbjerg/Denmark
Mira:
--- Quote ---Now that's an interesting thing, I believe it was in WoJs that we're told one of the uses of soulfire is to bring to life the Einherjar, so, if it's pre-christian, then it doesn't go with another WoJ where he said Odin got the soulfire when the christian god took over or something like that. But I guess it could be questionable since those two tidbits of information are not in the books while the 4000 years thing is on them.
--- End quote ---
Archangels were around since the beginning of time, so before Christ.. Soul fire has been around since there were angels. It could be that it was a deal Odin made with the Creator to allow for the conversion of the mortal humans who worshiped him as a god.
--- Quote ---As we all know, Harry will break all seven laws of magic by the end of the series. I'm pretty sure that he (and Murphy) will be able to circumvent this just made up "cosmic rule" (who made it a "cosmic rule", btw? Or did you just come up with that?) as well.
--- End quote ---
I call it a cosmic rule because quoting Gard, "That is the limit not even the Allfather can cross." Not made up, but a real limit. If Odin cannot go past that limit, it sounds like a cosmic rule to me, set down by someone more powerful, the Creator perhaps?
You are comparing apples to oranges, yes, Harry might break all Seven Laws of Magic before he is done, but those are still laws set up by mortal wizards, even Merlin himself was a mortal. The limit that the Allfather cannot cross, isn't a limit set by mortals. At the end of the day, Murphy is still dead, she may be Einherjar with limited Intellectus, which hasn't been defined yet, but she is still dead.
--- Quote ---Murphy wouldn't be returning the world, Harry and Gard would be seeing her and Hendricks in Valhalla while seeking information.
--- End quote ---
Now that sounds plausible, but then again if it were that simple you'd think that Gard wouldn't be so upset over the loss of Hendricks. As a Valkyrie you'd think she could go see him in Valhalla at any time.. I think it's that pesky "limit," that cannot be crossed.. I'm not saying Jim won't find a way around it, but as I said be careful for what you wish for... Crossing those kinds of limits have real consequences.
magnuskn:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 28, 2023, 02:43:45 PM ---I call it a cosmic rule because quoting Gard, "That is the limit not even the Allfather can cross." Not made up, but a real limit. If Odin cannot go past that limit, it sounds like a cosmic rule to me, set down by someone more powerful, the Creator perhaps?
You are comparing apples to oranges, yes, Harry might break all Seven Laws of Magic before he is done, but those are still laws set up by mortal wizards, even Merlin himself was a mortal. The limit that the Allfather cannot cross, isn't a limit set by mortals. At the end of the day, Murphy is still dead, she may be Einherjar with limited Intellectus, which hasn't been defined yet, but she is still dead.
--- End quote ---
Eh, dead is relative here. The Einherjar we've seen are walking around just fine. And, yeah, I believe Harry can break "cosmic laws" if he puts his mind to it. Also, to be honest, I find it all too suspicious how suddenly that "you totally can't see each other" plopped out of nowhere with Murphy dying and then getting revived. Seems like a placeholder to me, to keep Harry miserable for a while, just like putting a magic chastity belt on Molly to prevent a relationship developing there.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Kringle is a bona fide time traveller with the sanction of the White God, as Odin he is bound not to bring back an Einenjharen until they are lost to living memory. As Kringle he can bring them back in time to when they are needed. He just calls them his ‘elves’. If so his sanction pass is at its strongest on Christmas, and it is significant we haven’t seen anything beyond Christmas Eve. What if Christmas Day Murphy is back?
This sounds like EXACTLY the sort of cheat Odin wanted the Kringle Mantle for, not just to regain his immortality.
magnuskn:
Jim wanted to take Murphy out of the story, but with an in-built cheat mechanism to later use her character again. It stands to reason therefore that getting her back will just be as hard or easy as Jim needs it to be to happen at the right moment. That Murphy will return at some point is pretty much guaranteed, otherwise Jim wouldn't have made her an Einherjar. I just think it'll be sooner rather than later.
g33k:
RE the einherjar and soulfire, and:
--- Quote from: LaraBeck on September 28, 2023, 01:07:18 PM --- ... another WoJ where he said Odin got the soulfire when the christian god took over or something like that...
--- End quote ---
And then the quote
--- Quote ---“Einherjar. Give them a little sip of renewed mortality, and four thousand years of discipline go right out the window”
--- End quote ---
There are IMO several (relatively-easy) resolutions.
First and most-trivial: Sigrun Gard is likely an unreliable narrator, just like Harry himself. Four thousand years, two thousand years, meh... no difference, really.
Second: while "Christianity" is explicitly 2000 years old, the "Christian God" is explicitly the same as the Jewish God, and thus thousands of years older (the Exodus from Egypt being about 1500BC).
Third: despite what many think, the Norse "old ways" aren't all that old. The Eddas were 13th C; the "Viking Age" began about year 800; and the oldest examples of Eldest Futhark runes and other "Proto-Norse" inscriptions are from the 2nd C. Obviously, these represented an extant culture & tradition, not something brand-new. But it puts the origins of Norse ways REMARKABLY close in time to the beginning of Christianity, hmmm?
No reason at all that Young Odin couldn't have made a deal with post-Christ Yahweh, and then Soulfire'd some centuries-old warrior-ghosts (think Sir Stuart) to jumpstart his corps of fighters.
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