The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon

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Mira:


 I think people are too quick to call something a mantle, when it isn't.  Or it may be considered a mantle because "power is gained," like the "mantle of the presidency", however this type of mantle shouldn't be confused with the mantles like the Queens of Summer and Winter hold.

The_Sibelis:
Actually..  I don't suppose you remember this argument but, mantles by definition are in the same vein of logic as mantle of authority. Mab has the mantle of the winter queen. What makes that a metaphysical mantle is open of debate of course. But when you factor in how gruff reacts to Murphy hiding behind a mortal mantle, it's possible the metaphysical impact of all such things in the DF have more weight behind them then a regular usage. The mantles in question would be to the head of the Aztec/incan religious order. It's living deity. Which with the cattle and ramps they've technically kept going even when avoiding their stronghold on earth.

Conspiracy Theorist:
Once again point to where it says this in the text or in the WOJ.

Mira is correctly going by those criteria

I believe there is a WOJ which does directly contradicts your point, that the Red Court assumed the identities of Elder Gods who disappeared and garnered some power from their worshippers in the interim. We know what happened to other Elder Gods and Powers, permanent Exile to the Never Never, a power step down or Demonreach. I suspect the latter in this case as it provides another reason for Peabody to become Warden, it would create a hold over the Red Court once the White Council had been destroyed by them, and prevent them double-crossing Cowl and the Black Council/Circle. Basically the adults would have come home to find that the kids had trashed the place. We know a Warden can selectively release an inmate from Peace Talks/Battle Ground. What a lovely piece of Blackmail, they could do the same with all other factions Cowl worked with e.g the Etruscan deities for the White Court.

Thank you Sibelus you have inadvertently provided a motive for Peabody’s actions in Turn Coat, the Warden is a check on the Red Court and others because some of the inmates have scores to settle with their successors and any conflict would be very one sided given their relative power levels, and that threat prevents a double cross against Peabody and Cowl, and they are released under the control of Peabody so the Elder Gods can’t double cross him and Cowl.

The Elder Gods are wildly more powerful than the Red King, who wasn’t even at the Immortal power level of the Erl King, my guess his power level was that of Odin (without the Kringle Mantle) and the Lords of Outer Night ranked below that (it would be consistent with Vadderung demonstration to Harry)he did not therefore inherit the Mantle of an Elder God and could not therefore transmit it to anyone else. Any Mantle or power was locked in Demonreach most likely. Cowl would have some seepage hold over Peabody.

The_Sibelis:
Once again this is one of those meta theories that take place on others theories. Don't like it? You can either ignore it or get on its level to try to take it down. Which requires discussion. Not a, I don't believe so.
Mira's comment isn't actually directly related to that,  because it doesn't declare anything other than she thinks people are too quick to label something a mantle. Her comment stands on its own and my reply was a question. Not a declaration.
 And so ya know, as long as it's, "how to cow him, how to beat him, how to shut him down". It's not going to work. You could disprove me easily enough at times, but the focus on the W is too narrow to look that deep.🤷‍♂️ My focus isn't on being right, it's on finding the truth. It's already a different game for me.
Peabody becoming warden? Your welcome I guess but it seems that your theory relies on the idea they're in fact in DR. Since that's not proven your theory has no more leg to stand on than mine wouldn't you say?🤔(gonna need that woj too...)

Conspiracy Theorist:
The Peabody as Warden Theory is dependent upon the motive to kill LaFortier in that he was in fact an hidden absentee Warden, Peabody had been waiting for years to identify the Warden, and had him killed releasing Demonreach. This is the reason I believe why Jim in WOJ will not disclose the identity of the Warden before Harry, it gives away Peabody’s motivation.

His intention was to slip to the island when he wouldn’t be missed and undergo the ritual (he is an expert on summoning and binding due his previous work on the Erl King) but Harry beat him to the punch, something he couldn’t know until he himself was on the island tried the ritual and failed. He was one of two people to arrive on the island from the Never Never with the Winter Spiders, likely this was from a back door normally protected by Mab, and used by the Gatekeeper, so Maeve would have accompanied him. There is a link from Pell’s Theatre in Chicago to just outside Arctis Tor, so Peabody could set off after the rest of White Council and arrive at the island about the same time, and leave and get back to Edinburgh by the same route.

It’s likely this which turned Mab to the need to kill Maeve.

I do genuinely thank you for your earlier post, it led me to an insight as to why Demonreach was so important and fits with several other theories I have put forward about Cowl and the Red Court. It was a piece I was missing, but is obvious in retrospect Demonreach was to be a sword of Damocles over the Red Court, Cowl never intended to be dependent upon their good will.

The WOJ about the Red Courts origins is from a Q&A a few years ago, I would have to review several YouTube videos to identify which. It is certainly pre- Skin Game and as he had killed them all off probably after Changes. However it is consistent with parts of the text and WOJ about the Greco Romano Gods and the anticipated wrestling book in relation to what happened to the old pantheons. The WOJ was I believe in respect of this passage, and the questioner wanting more information.

“He shook his head. “What you must understand is that you face beings such as I in this battle.” I frowned. “You mean . . . gods?” “Mostly retired gods, at any rate,” Vadderung said. “Once, entire civilizations bowed to them. Now they are venerated by only a handful, the power of their blood spread out among thousands of offspring. But in the Lords of Outer Night, even the remnants of that power are more than you can face as you are.” Page 162 of Changes.

Odin at this time is a shadow of god-like self himself, and being coy about his current power level, to avoid giving information away, inadvertently about himself, we only later discover he became mortal to stay in the mortal world, suggesting the Red King is in a similar situation, no longer wielding anywhere the full power of a god. We don’t know he is also Kringle at this time (although Jim put in an Easter Egg) the Red King may have been the de powered remnant of a depopulated pantheon, accepting mortality over exile or imprisonment

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