The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

In Retrospect The Relevance Of Storm Front and Full Moon

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The_Sibelis:
Honestly man, it's a damn good theory there. The only thing I disagree with offhand is who else went to the island with him(why Maeve? This is a perfect job for nameless anyway? Remember, bureaucrats and lawyers are friendly cousins in there jobs lol)
Though I think you misinterpreted whose mantle Red King would have received. Kulkan has strong ties to Quetzalcoatl in the same way  Roman is related to Greek pantheon wise. The original theory I read has vampiric beings(outer night wannabes) draining the original pantheon metaphorically and perhaps literally of their power. Being Lord's of outer night alone wouldn't have put there place of power there on earth for instance. Powers not destroyed though we know. So what happened to the energy behind these quasimmortal beings TWG couldn't just throw out? Who have real bodies left over. (Which I do have a theory on why he doesn't/can't and it's related to the arbitrary usage of 7 courts despite only bothering to really flesh out 3-4 of them to any depth, because they're mirrors of the seven deadly sins)
Which actually is the thread that got me looking into Nemesis the Goddess and her attentive identities in proto-Roman culture, Etruscan. My original big theory.
My pondering, was what happened to that energy unbound by Dresden's knife? True it's likely the Eb's survived but I don't think they got the power for the same reason they didn't get hit by the curse. Hidden away in EK's dungeons. Originally, I found the idea of 13 matching grey council members to be a good sync to that power. Though the discussion on how the fomor were actually in any way unbound by the ramps disappearance made me question if that's where their power went.

Conspiracy Theorist:
Nameless doesn’t do his own dirty work if he can avoid it so if the jump off point in Arctis Tor is Mab’s ice garde/dungeon then he might not have access to it .

Gods don’t have Mantles, they came into being before linear time Mantles are constructs. Odin assumes a Mantle after powering down, the Kringle Mantle was created in linear time like the other 8 known Mantles.

A real God can’t be drained by a lesser being unless this is permitted on something like Halloween. It is clear the three-fold choice given to all beings of God level power, we have seen it operation. The WG on the other was in a position to power down those who wouldn’t accept exile, and that power added to the WG. Why should it go to mortals? In Chicken Pizza the WG had four of its champions on the field, what power didn’t go into the bloodline curse was likely absorbed by the WG via the Angels in the sword. This is probably what happens with the power of every monster slain by the swords or in their proximity, their power goes to the WG.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on July 24, 2023, 04:09:58 PM ---Nameless doesn’t do his own dirty work if he can avoid it so if the jump off point in Arctis Tor is Mab’s ice garde/dungeon then he might not have access to it .
--- End quote ---
still puts too much on Maeve being interconnected in other plots to me. All word on nameless is he's the thread that weaves through others actions. Maeve, would also have been recognized by the island, if not outright in TC, when she arrived later in CD it'd have known she brought the spiders last time.


--- Quote ---Gods don’t have Mantles, they came into being before linear time Mantles are constructs. Odin assumes a Mantle after powering down, the Kringle Mantle was created in linear time like the other 8 known Mantles.
--- End quote ---
na, that's citation needed. Hercules is a mantle now because he didn't survive, who made Hercules into the mantle of the hulk?🤷‍♂️ considering all he did was go berserk and is literally quoted as beating his head on things. Your looking at specific crafted mantles but forgetting there's already woj on mantles and many of them existing without anyone currently holding them. God's don't have mantles, unless they are a mantle. And since that's one mechanism completely unidentified at this time 🤷‍♂️ gonna have to show proof of what makes a mantle and why to make that claim.
Oh and yes, if Quetzalcoatl was drained by kulkan, kulkan became known as such because he took his identity, mask, mantle.


--- Quote ---A real God can’t be drained by a lesser being unless this is permitted on something like Halloween.
--- End quote ---
that's literally what was to happen during the dark hallow...? This statement needs retractable, as it's opinion is in direct opposition to known in book actions. Also, I'd say the woj Mab, if taken by a whamp, would actually be enslaved by it, also proves otherwise. And the third one already out there, is the denarians becoming the new God or some such.(something that I think was your theory?🤔) Which would be pretty hard to do with the above assertion?

--- Quote ---It is clear the three-fold choice given to all beings of God level power, we have seen it operation.
--- End quote ---
no not really, it's easy for you to see your own thoughts on the matter tho?
--- Quote ---The WG on the other was in a position to power down those who wouldn’t accept exile, and that power added to the WG. Why should it go to mortals? In Chicken Pizza the WG had four of its champions on the field, what power didn’t go into the bloodline curse was likely absorbed by the WG via the Angels in the sword.
--- End quote ---
because pretty much the entirety of this part is sheer conjecture and completely unproven but if you actually start to look at the details is completely untenable.
--- Quote ---This is probably what happens with the power of every monster slain by the swords or in their proximity, their power goes to the WG.

--- End quote ---
1 they didn't slay them, Dresden did, and Leah and how many did they actually cut down themselves?
Anyway, the simple logical reason is the swords are powered by grace, doffed by angels. Angel's are absolute. They wouldn't be taking on the alloy and change  of demonic forces while constantly growing in power threatening the entire balance in the process. Flat out doesn't work with known mechanics, doubly so going to TWG directly. Those are not the same flavor of power at all. Might as well feed the winter knight into the summer table.

Conspiracy Theorist:
Maeve was ripe for manipulation before Nemesis. Mab had been aware of this for several decades and assigned the Red Cap to watch her. To some degree all the plots involving the Faerie Courts are traceable to Cowls manipulation of Maeve, she had even moved her Court to Chicago in Grave Peril, which gave Cowl/Nameless cover for his continued involvement in Chicago.

Mantles are by their very nature a construct, look at the discussion between Molly and Harry as to the complexity of their Mantles. The Queens Mantles also appear to be linked to the statues in Hades Vault as some kind of physical anchor. Kringle legends date back only as far as 280 AD with St Nicholas, well into human history. The Fairie Courts looks to be Arthurian so 5th and 6th Century - Christianity was supplanting worship of the Pantheons so the changeover to the Faerie Courts as defenders of the Gates would make sense. The Mantles would have been constructed at this time pouring in power from retiring gods.

The Darkhallow was to consume the human lifeforce of Chicago, not the Erl King and the wild hunt, that summoning was to raise the difficult to get at spirits.

The Hulk is a fictional character in the 616 Marvel Universe, so is Hercules. Harry admits that Spider-Man is equally valid as he is in a multiverse, so the Hulk and the 616 Universe Hercules exist. Not sure there is a WOJ over Hercules, Jim is going to use the Greco-Roman pantheon in the Wrestling Book, it is where they are eking out bits of worship. Thor is apparently playing College Football for the same reason.

We have seen what happened to Odin, we have seen what happened to Hades and when the Titan came out of hiding three champions of the White God capable of injuring/binding her were on the field. Mab is also considered the most powerful of beings currently in play, the Titan was a shock, so there is no one other than Titania supposed to be around at her over level or above other than angels and archangels, which definitely suggests the White God is responsible for this.

Dresden slew them but didn’t absorb any of their power, you suggest the Grey Council did, bit the White God makes more sense. His Swords were there for a reason.

The_Sibelis:

--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on July 24, 2023, 08:35:22 PM ---Maeve was ripe for manipulation before Nemesis. Mab had been aware of this for several decades and assigned the Red Cap to watch her. To some degree all the plots involving the Faerie Courts are traceable to Cowls manipulation of Maeve, she had even moved her Court to Chicago in Grave Peril, which gave Cowl/Nameless cover for his continued involvement in Chicago.
--- End quote ---
as quite shown and pointed out, she didn't need cowl to manipulate her into Nemesis service tho. And considering Maeve was being watched from inside that'd really give mab way more insight into blaming nameless for her daughter's fate. Proof or no, if mab even suspected that he did, he'd be facing Mama Bear aligned with the will of the mantle.


--- Quote ---Mantles are by their very nature a construct, look at the discussion between Molly and Harry as to the complexity of their Mantles.
--- End quote ---
the mantles we've seen are constructed yes. Though when you start to look at the raw details you see what exactly the other side of a mantle is, a mental/spiritual construct of a spiritual being. It's their mind/identity. Always. Not all mantles are based on mirroring a particular being, but those still connect to a specific metaphysical idea. The archive is human memory for instance. Not memory per SE, but the collective idea of human knowledge.
And then we have... Bob. Which when you start to look at the details is just a different "deal" around a similar existence for the spirit. Instead of a mantle it's another way to create insulation between spirit and user. Bob pays in knowledge for a place to stay in the physical realm, he's paying rent. Instead of having his own identity and effecting 'the wearer', he'd become a reflection of the wearer, something that itself could take its own identity like kemmlers version even sans a name. Mantles, talisman, home skulls, coins, curses even.. ect is all just a form of insulation from a perfect possession, the complete blending of a spiritual being with a human capable of free will actions. The fae mantles are so strict because they must maintain a perfect balance. It's a contract with the wearer to subsume them and in doing so eek the free will/ the soul out of them into keeping the mantle fresh and viable in reality.


--- Quote ---The Queens Mantles also appear to be linked to the statues in Hades Vault as some kind of physical anchor. Kringle legends date back only as far as 280 AD with St Nicholas, well into human history. The Fairie Courts looks to be Arthurian so 5th and 6th Century - Christianity was supplanting worship of the Pantheons so the changeover to the Faerie Courts as defenders of the Gates would make sense. The Mantles would have been constructed at this time pouring in power from retiring gods.
--- End quote ---
it's implied the fae grew with their importance and power. The original winter queen wouldn't have needed a mantle, she was the queen of winter. The effect your talking about is actually the giving of certain authorities to said Queen. It's the authority and power given by the mothers, through the table that beefed the importance of the originals. After all the woj is they're both the last of the original defenders and simply the current ones in trusted with it. They'd already been around, they just didn't have the position in reality.


--- Quote ---The Darkhallow was to consume the human lifeforce of Chicago, not the Erl King and the wild hunt, that summoning was to raise the difficult to get at spirits.
--- End quote ---
you definitely need to look at the attentive woj and it's context, even the context in book.


--- Quote ---The Hulk is a fictional character in the 616 Marvel Universe, so is Hercules. Harry admits that Spider-Man is equally valid as he is in a multiverse, so the Hulk and the 616 Universe Hercules exist. Not sure there is a WOJ over Hercules, Jim is going to use the Greco-Roman pantheon in the Wrestling Book, it is where they are eking out bits of worship. Thor is apparently playing College Football for the same reason.
--- End quote ---
that is the woj, that yes they existed in the DF and now they exist and are impowered in the human zeitgeist by amalgamations of memory like the hulk. Specifically citing his berserk tendencies and that he did not survive. And yes I'm sure the wrestling book will have a lot more on that.  Also mentions other mantles nobody has claimed.


--- Quote ---We have seen what happened to Odin, we have seen what happened to Hades and when the Titan came out of hiding three champions of the White God capable of injuring/binding her were on the field. Mab is also considered the most powerful of beings currently in play, the Titan was a shock, so there is no one other than Titania supposed to be around at her over level or above other than angels and archangels, which definitely suggests the White God is responsible for this.
--- End quote ---
in the overarching context, sure? He's in cahoots with the good guys to get reality the right antibodies to help it stay healthy. Not sure what that's says all by itself though.


--- Quote ---Dresden slew them but didn’t absorb any of their power, you suggest the Grey Council did, bit the White God makes more sense. His Swords were there for a reason.

--- End quote ---
and I've already shown why that'd not make any sense or be thematically correct at all. TWG doesn't seize power, tries to minimize his own power, knows the importance of power in play, maintains balance, and uses angels which are absolute, not alloys which is the kind of power your implying. Flat out doesn't work. It's not goblin made steel, it does not absorb that which strengthens it. Considering that's also an action the angels would have to take, not the welder. Then attentive angels on the other side would also be impowered to take more power, on earth, for themselves. Actually doesn't make sense.

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