The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Can one of the Fallen become infected by Nemesis? And if so...?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Melriken on April 21, 2023, 04:52:26 PM ---That Nic is referring to TWG in that scene?
FACT.
Here are all the relevant quotes I could find in a quick search, page numbers taken from the Hard back Edition, it starts around chapter 40.
Page 330
page 348
page 346
I mean, I guess Harry could have read the reference wrong and jumped to a wrong conclusion and Nic just played along with it...
But there is nothing there to suggest he was talking about HHW-Beside over Harry's interpretation of TWG.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, but ... you just demonstrated that it was only your opinion, not a "fact:"
--- Quote from: Melriken on April 21, 2023, 04:52:26 PM --- But there is nothing there to suggest he was talking about HHW-Beside over Harry's interpretation of TWG.
--- End quote ---
Equally, there is nothing to counter the equally-valid understanding of Outsiders being the "Enemy" Nic was mentioning. Your opinion is that everyone was talking about TWG... but there's a strong case to be made that that wasn't true, that Nic's "Enemy" was the Outsider-threat, which seems to be the looming Apocalypse of the series.
Harry is wrong a lot.
And Jim seems very happy to regularly channel Obi-wan's "... from a certain point of view" rhetoric.
Melriken:
--- Quote from: g33k on April 21, 2023, 06:32:15 PM ---Sorry, but ... you just demonstrated that it was only your opinion, not a "fact:"
--- End quote ---
It is my opinion, Harry’s opinion, Hades’ opinion, and Nic reacted emotionally to it as a father to the truth, and realized that Harry was a father because of it…
The word Enemy referring to TWG is as close to a fact as anything in the books. You can take any fact in the books and create a theory that states that that fact is wrong and everyone is mistaken about it... and one of those theories may even be right (for example everyone thinks Ghosts are Echos and not souls, everyone could be wrong (and Harry WAS a soul in GS and everyone thought he was a ghost)) but those theories can't be used to support other theories, they don't provide support. They might be true despite their lack of support, but until they are supported they don't provide support.
Regardless Nic took the coin with him so we are talking about Diedre’s safety not the safety of the fallen so it doesn’t speak to this theory either way.
Edit: Sorry Mods.
Melriken:
--- Quote from: g33k on April 21, 2023, 05:58:57 PM --- Numbers 22:31 actually specifies nothing about the appearance of the angel: "Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown." Between the terror of the donkey and Balaam himself "falling facedown," I think this speaks to an inherently-frightening appearance, not even slightly normal or human.
--- End quote ---
We know that he was standing (legs and feet) and had a sword drawn (arms and hands) and that the author didn’t feel the need to specify anything else about him (generally human and normal height etc)
But I think we are generally in agreement… just wanted to explain why I referenced passages like that.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Melriken on April 21, 2023, 07:01:50 PM ---it is my opinion, Harry’s opinion, Hades’ opinion, and Nic reacted emotionally to it as a father to the truth, and realized that Harry was a father because of it…
--- End quote ---
Hades only spoke to the fact that he would be responsible for enacting whatever punishment Deirdre faced; he didn't address anything relevant to whatever "enemy" Nic was mentioning, whom Deidre would be "safe" from.
Similarly, Nic was reacting to having his nose rubbed in the fact that he'd condemned his own daughter to an eternity of punishment by Hades. The fact that Harry was presuming the alternative was the biblical "hell" doesn't mean that Harry was right, nor even that Nic believed Harry was right...
What's Nic gonna do, with Harry's words about his daughter's fate fresh in his mind? Go, "Ha-Ha, that wasn't the fate or the Enemy I meant! Checkmate, you damn bleeding-heart!" ???
Melriken:
--- Quote from: g33k on April 21, 2023, 08:01:43 PM ---What's Nic gonna do, with Harry's words about his daughter's fate fresh in his mind? Go, "Ha-Ha, that wasn't the fate or the Enemy I meant! Checkmate, you damn bleeding-heart!" ???
--- End quote ---
As I said, even if you were right you would be wrong.
Nic took the coin and left the human soul of Diedre in Hades. The entire conversation is about the human portion not the fallen. The human portion is vulnerable to nimfection. Everyone agrees. The soul is not vulnerable to nimfection, in hell or hades underworld… your argument can’t support itself. If he was talking about nemesis the comment is meaningless because the dead don’t worry about nimfection… and the human part would be vulnerable regardless and the fallen portion isn’t part of Nic’s comment…
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