The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How much information does the WC have
Mira:
--- Quote ---I think harry could hole up, and set a perimeter and be very hard to root out on the ground, and impossible in the jail, but once they get on the island? haven't seen an ability to take out a lot of targets. Powerful ones, yes, even Mab, but in small numbers.
--- End quote ---
Key word here is set foot on the island, once the defenses are set by the Warden, they don't set foot on the island. Alfred isn't passive at all, Freydis was seen as a greater threat than Lara, every time she tried to step onto land, she was flung into the lake.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on February 14, 2023, 09:39:32 AM ---If they came after him one at a time, like a Bruce Lee movie, sure. Alfred could take out the whole White council. But can he target multiple targets at once? We don't really know that. When he fought Lara and Freydis on the island, he didn't ever target both at the same time. He bound Lara in the grass. Then he swatted Freydis with a tree. Lara pulled free, Harry put her in quicksand. Freydis came on, Harry sank her too. One at a time. The hardcases may not be able to hurt Alfred, but they could Harry. Alfred can protect him against any - but all? We don't know yet
--- End quote ---
That was basically just restraining them with the island's natural materials.
Telling Alfred "grab everyone and put them in the cells" is a completely different matter.
vincentric:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on February 19, 2023, 09:34:02 AM ---Alfred has always been somewhat passive when he is not under order. Remember him letting the fae pound on him? He didn't run Harry off. Yes, Lara and Freydis are faster. And they never got Harry into range of their attacks - they were all hand to hand. So Harry had time. If Harry faced off with the Wardens and SC, he is in range at all times. He zaps Eb and LtW, Mai zaps HIM. He has to take 7 out before they can fire.
Break LOS? First, he has to do it. You think that the Blackstaff never had to find an invisible target and deal with that? Body heat. heatbeat. Echolocation. If Joe shapeshifts to a bird - he is not ON the island, he is ABOVE it. All 8 have effective attacks, Lara and Freydis had NONE until they could close. Alfred seems to be one at a time. Why didn't he scoop up Corb and a couple of others when he got Ethniu? Because he does one thing at a time. Yes, harry could fort up, go down into the cell block before the SC arrives, lock the door behind him, and tell Alfred to chase anyone who comes on the island away, and then let harry out. But that is not the same as fighting 3 Senior Council and 4 Wardens likely more on Morgan's level than, say, Carlos.
I think harry could hole up, and set a perimeter and be very hard to root out on the ground, and impossible in the jail, but once they get on the island? haven't seen an ability to take out a lot of targets. Powerful ones, yes, even Mab, but in small numbers.
--- End quote ---
Well, at the end of CD, Harry told Alfred to take Mab below and lock her up if she killed him. So even if it's one at a time, none of the WC or wardens can handle that.
And yes, Harry can break LOS pretty easily. All he needs is for Alfred to whip up a fog or sandstorm while he runs into the forest. Then he plays hide and seek for the few minutes it will take Alfred to grab or squish everyone. And that's the key. Harry doesn't have to fight, he just has to give the order to Alfred and survive till the action ends. And his worse outcome is a draw. The WC has a chance to get him with their first shot but Alfred will still get them just as he would have Mab.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Well, at the end of CD, Harry told Alfred to take Mab below and lock her up if she killed him. So even if it's one at a time, none of the WC or wardens can handle that.
--- End quote ---
And keep in mind, this was before Harry had learned anything about the island's defenses. All he needed to do was give the order, and it got Mab's attention because she knew that Alfred could do it.
--- Quote ---And yes, Harry can break LOS pretty easily. All he needs is for Alfred to whip up a fog or sandstorm while he runs into the forest. Then he plays hide and seek for the few minutes it will take Alfred to grab or squish everyone. And that's the key. Harry doesn't have to fight, he just has to give the order to Alfred and survive till the action ends. And his worse outcome is a draw. The WC has a chance to get him with their first shot but Alfred will still get them just as he would have Mab.
--- End quote ---
Harry knows Carlos pretty well, he only needs to order Alfred/island to handle him based on his weaknesses and his strengths. No contest.
--- Quote ---hat was basically just restraining them with the island's natural materials.
--- End quote ---
Now you are woefully underestimating Alfred/island's strength, ever hear of "earth magic?"
--- Quote ---Telling Alfred "grab everyone and put them in the cells" is a completely different matter.
--- End quote ---
No need to do that, it would never get that far, nor is the Senior Council dumb enough to rush the island in the first place.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 19, 2023, 05:28:05 PM --- ... nor is the Senior Council dumb enough to rush the island in the first place.
--- End quote ---
I think this is generally true, though maybe individual SC members (lookin' at u Cristos!) might be dumb enough...
But nerds -- including Dresden nerds -- seem like moths to a flame, for "who beats..." topics.
At a certain point, raw combat power is just not really relevant anymore, it's not going to carry the day: they all have enough badassery to manage a killshot; it's just a question of who was better-prepared / sneakier / etc... for example, who thought to bring a bagfull of (iron-armed) Little Folk to a Queenfight?
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