The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
forumghost:
Oh yeah that's absolutely what Mab is doing. It's textbook stuff for abusers (and make no mistake, that's what Mab is) to isolate their victims from others to better manipulate them. It's why she cut off Harry when he was stuck on demonreach, it's why she tries to get Molly to abandon her human side/family.
It's much easier to control people when they have nobody but you to turn to.
g33k:
--- Quote from: forumghost on December 20, 2022, 11:18:57 PM --- Oh yeah that's absolutely what Mab is doing. It's textbook stuff for abusers (and make no mistake, that's what Mab is) to isolate their victims from others to better manipulate them. It's why she cut off Harry when he was stuck on demonreach, it's why she tries to get Molly to abandon her human side/family.
It's much easier to control people when they have nobody but you to turn to.
--- End quote ---
I think it's more complicated than that. Yes, Mab is abusive. But she also was entirely-aware of the entity growing in the mind of her Winter Knight, and the "ticking time-bomb" effect. She kept Dresden isolated as a short-term tactic, not a long-term strategy; just until she could leverage that "time bomb" to make him do her bidding. Since then, she hasn't particularly been putting in much effort to isolate him; nor Molly.
As others have said, she's trying to get Molly to abandon her human side because -- in Mab's view -- humans are weak. And so Mab is terribly frightened: the Queen of Winter (chief defender of the mortal world from Outsider-invasion) has no backstop, no failsafe; the Lady is still too human, too frail. If Mab falls (and we know from Ethniu that it's very-possible, and getting more so), the Winter Queen will be a mortal who won't likely last the turning of the seasons.
Mira:
--- Quote ---As others have said, she's trying to get Molly to abandon her human side because -- in Mab's view -- humans are weak. And so Mab is terribly frightened: the Queen of Winter (chief defender of the mortal world from Outsider-invasion) has no backstop, no failsafe; the Lady is still too human, too frail. If Mab falls (and we know from Ethniu that it's very-possible, and getting more so), the Winter Queen will be a mortal who won't likely last the turning of the seasons.
--- End quote ---
Yes, Mab is frightened, she also learns from past mistakes and I think she may feel that the best lessons are learned, the hard way. In Peace Talks Corb mocks her about her being crying pimply faced young woman crying [I assume when she was still Lady] because her lover dumped her. Apparently she told her own daughter Maeve about the no sex rule for Winter Ladies, and it made her twisted and vulnerable to infestation by Nemesis. So perhaps she thought that better for Molly to learn the hard way because it wastes less time.. It is possible that she never considered the other side of the equation, the man in question. We were all a bit shocked when she suggested that Harry kill Molly if something happened to her. However we know she had no problem ordering Harry to kill her own daughter. Actually I still maintain though Murphy may have pulled the trigger, Mab's finger was moving before hand, that she indeed killed her own daughter because she felt it had to be done. Maybe since the Mantle will flow into the nearest vessel, Mab is willing to gamble that the mantle will flow into a stronger vessel.. Again saving time.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 22, 2022, 03:03:06 PM --- Yes, Mab is frightened, she also learns from past mistakes and I think she may feel that the best lessons are learned, the hard way. In Peace Talks Corb mocks her about her being crying pimply faced young woman crying [I assume when she was still Lady] because her lover dumped her ...
--- End quote ---
I am guessing Mab was a mortal practitioner, in the time Corb was mentioning.
Certainly nobody carrying the Winter Lady mantle would be pimply-faced, the mantle would fix that right up.
My own WAG is that Mab was never Winter Lady at all: there was a massive battle where the Queen and the Lady both died, and Mother Winter had to take both Mantles, and bestow them as best she could (from among limited options). Maybe Mab was only Winter Lady for a very short time... but of course the Winter Lady wouldn't have a lover at all, so Mab may not have been eligible for the role. All in all, I'm betting on a direct promotion from mortal-practitioner to Winter Queen.
--- Quote from: Mira on December 22, 2022, 03:03:06 PM --- ... Apparently she told her own daughter Maeve about the no sex rule for Winter Ladies, and it made her twisted and vulnerable to infestation by Nemesis ...
--- End quote ---
Well, Maeve was hundreds of years old. Maybe Mab warned her, or maybe Maeve learned on her own in a similar manner as Molly did.
I don't think we know that the "sexual frustration issue" was key to Maeve's Nemfection (is there WoJ on that?), but it seems likely.
Honestly, though, the on-screen stuff we see suggests that it's the ability to lie that really delighted Maeve. Her big rant at the end -- about finally outmaneuvering Mab -- suggests that Maeve has been trying-and-failing to get a substantive victory over the Queen for much of her Winter Lady tenure, so the ability to lie may have been the lure she could not resist. We see Maeve lie, but we never actually know if she broke the "virginity clause" or not.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Honestly, though, the on-screen stuff we see suggests that it's the ability to lie that really delighted Maeve. Her big rant at the end -- about finally outmaneuvering Mab -- suggests that Maeve has been trying-and-failing to get a substantive victory over the Queen for much of her Winter Lady tenure, so the ability to lie may have been the lure she could not resist. We see Maeve lie, but we never actually know if she broke the "virginity clause" or not.
--- End quote ---
True, we don't, however we witness her twisted fascination with sex at her court in the Chicago Underground. While sex is only one aspect of mortal life, it is an important one. Meanwhile her sister is living a normal mortal life, and what is more seems to have a real mother/daughter relationship with Mab which really pushed her resentment. Yes, lying may of delighted her, but was it her or Nemesis that was doing the lying through her?
--- Quote ---I am guessing Mab was a mortal practitioner, in the time Corb was mentioning.
Certainly nobody carrying the Winter Lady mantle would be pimply-faced, the mantle would fix that right up.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, but while that may be true, Corb wouldn't hesitate to use that phrase as an insult.. He may have only meant that she was a very young woman at the time, by saying she had pimples he was saying she was a teenager at the time or barely out of her teenage years, even if she was Lady at the time. It could be very true that Mab did weep over losing her lover. Thing about it this way, Corb was saying all of this as a "taunt" saying that Mab is weak or once was very mortal. Remember what Kringle warned Harry about in Cold Days? It was when Mab allowed herself briefly to show Harry her grief over her daughter's death. Kringle told Harry that Mab was a very proud creature, and showing to others that she even appeared vulnerable she'd never forgive and would lose it. That is what Corb was doing with his taunt, telling others that this powerful Queen of Winter was once a very human creature, ergo really weak.
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