The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
So Fitz is...
Ed0517:
I don't read it that way. They brought in the Korean kid. They had a trial, they soulgazed him, they knew he drove at least 4 to suicide. Drove dozens insane. And they still brought him in for a trial. And they brought him in.
They would have likely had the equivalent to a "suspect is considered armed and dangerous" warning but it is an arrest team, not an assassination squad.
They catch he, bring her in, gaze her, and likely tell her minor wizards should not be playing with this stuff. You are dealing way beyond your power level.
Here's one.... they say archangels - could this circle, perfectly drawn, hold Uriel? a Mother? I tend to think humans can't even channel that sort of mana. Maybe Jim should have left out arch-
Mira:
--- Quote ---Here's one.... they say archangels - could this circle, perfectly drawn, hold Uriel? a Mother? I tend to think humans can't even channel that sort of mana. Maybe Jim should have left out arch-
--- End quote ---
It is the second book in the series, Jim could have changed his mind, but then again the circle has never been tested on page against the like. Uriel did shrug his shoulders at the pitiful circle a wounded Harry made to try to contain him in Changes, but that wasn't the same kind of circle.
--- Quote ---I don't read it that way. They brought in the Korean kid. They had a trial, they soulgazed him, they knew he drove at least 4 to suicide. Drove dozens insane. And they still brought him in for a trial. And they brought him in.
--- End quote ---
It really wasn't a trial, it was more of a kangaroo court, that is what Harry objected to. That is what he insisted on for Molly, a real trial at the end of the book. But the point is not the Korean's kid guilt, and yeah, most likely he was not redeemable and deserved the chop. The point is what the Merlin said about the risks and the damage these kids do if they are not redeemed. The kinds of beings these circles are meant to contain are beyond dangerous, and are not spoken about by the White Council. Harry hints that knowing how to build such a circle flirts with the dark arts. It isn't just about having one of these circles in your back yard, but what you could call up with it.
--- Quote ---They catch he, bring her in, gaze her, and likely tell her minor wizards should not be playing with this stuff. You are dealing way beyond your power level.
--- End quote ---
She wasn't a minor wizard, she wasn't even an apprentice, she had a little talent. The speech Harry gave her about the circle, what it could contain, controlling such a thing sounded a lot like the one the Merlin gave him about young would be warlocks, the immense amount of danger, deaths, if they were allowed to live and something went wrong.. Which it did, and Kim and a lot of innocents died. No, I doubt the Merlin or the rest of the Council would have merely given Kim a traffic ticket and sent her on her way with a warning. You say a soul gaze would have cleared it up.. Maybe, but then again the subtle undercurrent in the conversation between Kim and Harry, it was about her attitude. Why didn't she explain about Finn? I think Harry would have gone with her and tried to help Finn. Kim wanted Harry's knowledge, but she wanted to handle it herself, she wanted the credit.. In other words she was beginning down the road to the dark side, I believe the White Council would have seen it the same way.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on November 22, 2022, 06:25:08 PM --- Chauncy doesn’t lie, like a very good lawyer he tells partial truths, qualifies his replies and dangles ‘replies’ designed to elicit further questions from his victim, rather than answer their question ...
--- End quote ---
Oh no, Chauncy lies. He uses the "truth" (as you say: partial, and qualified; and embedded with distractions, red herrings, and other ("faerie-like") deceptions); but Chaunzaggoroth is a demon. He belongs to Lucifer, the Prince of Lies... whose Principality is lies.
Chauncy also tells the truth. He uses the truth strategically, tactically. It disarms his victims, sets their defenses at ease, lures them in. The "truth" is his stock in trade, it seems. But really, Chauncy deals in information; facts, divorced from "truth." The sun rises in the East... except, it doesn't: the sun doesn't move at all, but the rotation of the Earth makes it seem to.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 20, 2022, 11:25:25 AM --- ... As for Harry's reaction, it had nothing to do with what Chauncy told him about Finn. It had all to do about the information Chauncy volunteered about his mother and father ...
--- End quote ---
Chauncy hit Harry in the feels, with the info (and lures of more info) about his mother & father, and their deaths. He hoped to get Harry to make that final bargain.
But no, Harry rejected it; and then Chauncy made his fatal error -- he lost his temper. Harry had to contain him again against escaping from the summoning-circle, and banish him... and then:
--- Quote ---I was shaking all over, and not only with the cold of my laboratory. I had badly misjudged Chaunzaggoroh, thought him a somewhat reliable, if dangerous, source of information, willing to do reasonable business. But the rage, the fury, the frustrated malice that had been in his final offer, those last words, had shown his true colors. He had lied to me, deceived me about his true nature, played me along like a sucker and then tried to set the hook, hard. I felt like such an idiot.
--- End quote ---
The closest Chauncy came to an overt "lie" was at the very beginning of the chapter, the opening scene, after he failed to initially escape the circle:
--- Quote ---You understand, I must observe the formalities
--- End quote ---
Jim played it for comic relief, with the prim Oxford accent & wire-frame spec's. Chauncy himself plays it for comic relief, implying "see, really I'm Bruce Banner, that Hulk-out is ... just a formality."
And indeed Chaunzaggoroth must "observe the formalities" -- failure to do so will attract attention from Upstairs; Uriel's subtle hand, or just a good-ol-fashioned Smiting.
But Chauncy's attempt to get free wasn't one of those "formalities" he must observe, it was a genuine, full-effort attempt to get free, to get his claws on Dresden.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on November 28, 2022, 06:17:06 PM ---Oh no, Chauncy lies. He uses the "truth" (as you say: partial, and qualified; and embedded with distractions, red herrings, and other ("faerie-like") deceptions); but Chaunzaggoroth is a demon. He belongs to Lucifer, the Prince of Lies... whose Principality is lies.
Chauncy also tells the truth. He uses the truth strategically, tactically. It disarms his victims, sets their defenses at ease, lures them in. The "truth" is his stock in trade, it seems. But really, Chauncy deals in information; facts, divorced from "truth." The sun rises in the East... except, it doesn't: the sun doesn't move at all, but the rotation of the Earth makes it seem to.
--- End quote ---
Chauncy hadn't lied to Harry up to that point, at least Harry thought he hadn't. That is why he continued to use him for information. I doubt that he had, every fisherman knows to catch fish you need good bait. For bait, Chanucy used the truth, then he tried to set the hook, but Harry got off the hook, then Chauncy started to lie. In the end Harry was pissed with himself for being such a fool to trust Chauncy in the first place.
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