The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Ebenezars journal
g33k:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on September 23, 2022, 11:31:56 PM --- ... It’s also common word. Harry’s old fireplace had a mantle (and when he put his gun on it, it became a mantlepiece) his dusters have a mantle ...
--- End quote ---
Yes yes, and raptors "mantle" over their prey.
I know.
But these are distinctly other uses of the word. As a part of a fireplace, "mantle" is pretty common, you're right.
However, the use of "mantle" to describe a role, a responsibility, a burden... that is a much less common usage! And it's not merely "ambiguous" for Eb to use it that way, it's actually misleading: that specific "layman" usage is the one from which the magical usage derives.
It's particularly misleading coming from the pen of Ebenezer McCoy (for whom written & spoken ambiguity would only, I think, be intentional).
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on September 23, 2022, 11:31:56 PM ---... But the thing is Jim has probably noticed us noticing this ... His inner troll must rubs its hands with glee every time a Q&A brings up a Mantle question allowing him to prolong the agony, with a snarky answer.
--- End quote ---
This is undeniable; and honestly this meta-analysis is one I find FAR more compelling than the in-world argument.
I still think the text itself strongly implies that there's a "Warden-Mantle," but I completely see the argument that Jim might have written it that way to intentionally throw a red-herring in the fans' path...
Conspiracy Theorist:
Um mantle was in far more common usage a couple of hundred years ago certainly in the UK.
Ebeneezer is Scottish and born several centuries ago. Jim is trying to give Ebeneezer dialogue consistent with his origin, including more archaic usage. Could you imagine Eb calling anyone “dude”? It is consistent with Eb’s ‘voice’ and baits a trap for the unwary.
morriswalters:
Given this back and forth can anyone argue that Butcher has defined the term? I think not. 8) And why should he? The more narrowly he defines it the less useful it becomes a story device.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on September 24, 2022, 01:10:33 PM ---Given this back and forth can anyone argue that Butcher has defined the term? I think not. 8) And why should he? The more narrowly he defines it the less useful it becomes a story device.
--- End quote ---
Well, he has if you go by how he has used the term so far in the series, Jim has told us exactly what it means and how he wants to use the term. Mantle, with the exception of how Eb used in reference to the Warden of the Island, is the "Fae power" for lack of a better term that pertains to the Queen vessels, Lady vessels, and Knight vessels of both Courts, when on vessel dies it moves and occupies the nearest suitable vessel. It is physical, it enhances power, adds power, and is more or less controlled by the vessel. The Queens and Ladies seem to have more control over their mantles than the Knights do, but that might be because of lack of a suitable vessel. There is no physical take over when Harry became Warden, however having said that, his power has greatly increased by acquiring the job, so in that way though not exact I think it could indeed be considered a mantle. I think the main difference is the Fae Mantles seem to have a mind of their own and the vessel has to be strong to control it, where as there is no physical take over in the case of the Warden mantle, and so far at any rate Harry has had no problem controlling it, unlike his problems with the Winter Knight mantle.
vincentric:
I think the main difference is where a particular mantle stands on the power scale, what created it and more specifically if it grants immortality. There are capital M and small m mantles.
Mother, Lady or perhaps even Kringle grant immortality. They have much greater restraints on their holders freedom of action. Warden and Winter Knight are either created by or meant to be held by mortals. Winter Knight is more powerful than Warden(It works everywhere) but it does constrain Harry to obey Winter Law to maintain access.
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