The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Ebenezars journal
Conspiracy Theorist:
It’s mantle in the colloquial sentence alright, it isn’t capitalised, besides look at how Mab describes it to Lara in Peace Talks
“New colors,” she said, her voice velvety smooth and calm. “The shield used to be blue. What changed?” “He made an alliance with a powerful guardian entity,”
NOT A MANTLE
Harry ‘married’ Demonreach, or basically the equivalent, an exchange of obligations binding unto Harry’s death. Demonreach is a naturally occurring phenomena, a genius loci not a construct like the Mantles. He has been repurposed as a jailer, but that is merely an extension of his insular nature. Note even Mab describes Demonreach as powerful.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on September 23, 2022, 07:01:35 PM ---It’s mantle in the colloquial sentence alright, it isn’t capitalised, besides look at how Mab describes it to Lara in Peace Talks
“New colors,” she said, her voice velvety smooth and calm. “The shield used to be blue. What changed?” “He made an alliance with a powerful guardian entity,”
NOT A MANTLE
Harry ‘married’ Demonreach, or basically the equivalent, an exchange of obligations binding unto Harry’s death. Demonreach is a naturally occurring phenomena, a genius loci not a construct like the Mantles. He has been repurposed as a jailer, but that is merely an extension of his insular nature. Note even Mab describes Demonreach as powerful.
--- End quote ---
I find cap-or-not an unconvincing argument, honestly. I don't think Harry/Jim is consistent here. And there are a *lot* of other words (more common/conventional words than "mantle") Eb could have used in that passage... responsibility, obligation, role, etc.
Eb's book on magic is one of the WC's most foundational texts; clarity & precision in writing comes naturally to him. I don't think he would have written for posterity (Harry, and any putative great-grands) and used such an ambiguous term. It'd be like an actual astrophysicist making the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs (took the fandom decades to retcon that one!!!)
I think binding control of "Alfred" (within the scope of what the spirit is) is part of the role of Warden.
But although the spirit itself isn't a Mantle, I see nothing convincing to me that there isn't a "Wardenmantle," and some reasonably-good arguments that there is a mantle.
I don't think the case is ironclad, but it's relatively convincing.
Conspiracy Theorist:
At best the argument is tinfoil clad. Mab can only tell the truth, she has to be a reliable narrator in describing the Harry/Demonreach relationship.
People look for Mantles everywhere, but they mistake titles and other sorts of associations and relationships for them.
It’s also common word. Harry’s old fireplace had a mantle (and when he put his gun on it, it became a mantlepiece) his dusters have a mantle (when it fell to bits it became mantle pieces). It’s a word Jim likes and tends to slightly overuse in multiple contexts. He does the same with other words and phrases.
But the thing is Jim has probably noticed us noticing this, and therefore is trolling us with its further use, he could have use “burden” in the Journal but “mantle” was more fun for him. It appears to be working. His inner troll must rubs its hands with glee every time a Q&A brings up a Mantle question allowing him to prolong the agony, with a snarky answer.
Ed0517:
I think mantle here is mantle of leadership - like the captain of a sports team. The other mantles (Knight, Lady, Queen, etc.) are not human-created or powered. Possibly Blackstaff might be a mantle - but the power is in the Staff, which does not seem human created. Demonreach seems human created (assuming Merlin is human, I think he is supposedly a scion of sorts)
Mira:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on September 24, 2022, 04:29:32 AM ---I think mantle here is mantle of leadership - like the captain of a sports team. The other mantles (Knight, Lady, Queen, etc.) are not human-created or powered. Possibly Blackstaff might be a mantle - but the power is in the Staff, which does not seem human created. Demonreach seems human created (assuming Merlin is human, I think he is supposedly a scion of sorts)
--- End quote ---
It doesn't matter that the island was human created, it was magically created over a powerful ley line. The Warden of that island can draw from that power, he or she has power over it's inhabitants. Remember Mab telling Harry that he now could order Ethniu to fight for him because she was his prisoner now on Demonreach in Battle Ground? It may be limited to him being physically on the island, but maybe not, that's perhaps why the Council kept that post unfilled all these years? It is power that could be easily abused. Also remember Rashid's warnings to Harry about drawing power from that ley line back in Turn Coat? It could be that that is where Kemmler got the power needed to do what he did?
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