The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What the heck was Justin *UP* to??!?
morriswalters:
I lay Margaret's death at Lea's feet. A White vampire for Malcolm. Maybe Madeline. But Butcher has twisted things so badly in Battle Ground I no longer think that these are safe bets. Otherwise you WAGS would seem to be in the ballpark.
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on August 17, 2022, 11:30:18 AM ---One thing I'd like to point out is that Justin was apparently part of Maggie Sr's little Injustice League back in the day:
So there's a possible angle to consider there
--- End quote ---
Yeah, and the angle here is Malcolm. Love can do weird and wonderful things, falling in love did exactly that to Margaret. Keep in mind, she still understood the big picture as to why a star born child needed to be born and guided, she also understood that it's genetic make up was also important. That is why it is repeated over and over again through out the series that Harry inherited his heart and disposition from his father, Malcolm. That balances out the "destroyer" elements of your average star born. I don't think Lea is the bad guy in this, but rather as a fae, she doesn't fully understand humans. That was the flaw in Margaret's thinking when she asked her to be Harry's godmother and protector.
On one level I think Margaret underestimated the enemy, and those she asked to protect her child and her husband, i.e. Morgan were woefully out gunned. She didn't underestimate Lord Raith though, she knew that leaving him would piss him off and ultimately cost her her life. She understood that he was protected and impossible to kill outright, but at the same time she understood the Hunger Demon and how if she couldn't defeat it, she at least could hold it in check. So with this knowledge she carefully planned out her death curse long before her death to have maximum effect on Raith and ultimately lead to his downfall.
I also think Justin was at least aware of the White Council's plan to breed a star born. He knew that Margaret was part of that plan, who knows he may have imagined that he could seduce Margaret and be the father of such a child. That went out the window when Margaret met Malcolm. One question would be, was Justin aware of Malcolm before Margaret left his circle? If he was, he might have been in on Malcolm's murder.. Then that accomplished, keep track of Harry through the foster parent system and keep him there for a number of years to cover his tracks.. Also he may have wanted to wait to see if at the age of eleven or twelve if Harry started to show exceptional talent, which he did. Then he moved in to adopt the boy, he also adopted Elaine, not so much because he thought she might also be a star born, but because she had talent, she'd be useful to his ultimate plans, and again, cover his tracks. And he almost pulled it off.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Why would the White Court kill Malcolm?, he has no hand in Margaret’s escape.
Certainly the White Council were after Harry, but this suggests my Justin was an agent of the Merlin theory, but under that theory there is no possibility of Justin learning how to enslave Harry and Elaine. The White Council are woefully bad at anything which smacks of infringing the seven laws.
I think there were several groups trying to get Harry, and Morgan perhaps had the purest motives to respect Margaret’s wishes. Eb would have tried to force Harry into his mould exactly like he tried a failed with Margaret and certainly contemplated with Maggie. The Merlin was pure politics, Harry to him was nothing more than the Eye of Balor, a weapon, and this distracted Morgan, together with Eb’s attempts. Whoever was behind Justin had the same idea as the Merlin, they merely implemented things much more smoothly and preemptively (so definitely not the Merlin). That’s why I consider Nameless is in the frame. He is definitely a calculating and bold actor.
Justin tried to ingratiate himself with Margaret, on Nameless orders (we all pretty much agree he was an agent and not a principal, even if we disagree as to whose agent)she may have thought him to be working for her father given him previously being a Warden when Eb was Captain, scaring her off.
Lea may not originated as Human like Mab did, making her even more alien than Mab.
My thought on Elaine is this, if Harry could not enslaved as a willing cats paw (and so far nobody has been successful) Elaine gave them another way into the problem, they create a love interest, enslave her and use her to manipulate Harry through conventional means. That why Justin enslaved Elaine first.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Why would the White Court kill Malcolm?, he has no hand in Margaret’s escape.
--- End quote ---
I didn't say they had anything to do with killing Malcolm. Lord Raith did kill Margaret, and she knew she was doomed from the moment she left him for Malcolm, so she preplanned her death curse to do as much damage as possible to Lord Raith.
--- Quote ---
Certainly the White Council were after Harry, but this suggests my Justin was an agent of the Merlin theory, but under that theory there is no possibility of Justin learning how to enslave Harry and Elaine. The White Council are woefully bad at anything which smacks of infringing the seven laws.
--- End quote ---
So? When Margaret was chummy with Justin, if he wasn't already, he was well on his way to being a warlock. The Seven Laws wouldn't mean anything to him.. Proof of that is he never taught Harry anything about them, heck he didn't even mention that the White Council existed.
Eb does remain a mystery, why he seemingly made no moves to protect his son in law and grandson.. Or why he allowed his grandson to fade into the foster care system after his son in law was murdered. This bit is all very confusing, most of the Council weren't aware that Margaret was his daughter.. They apparently had plans of some kind for her to birth a star child, but then totally screwed up once that child was born.
--- Quote ---Justin tried to ingratiate himself with Margaret, on Nameless orders (we all pretty much agree he was an agent and not a principal, even if we disagree as to whose agent)she may have thought him to be working for her father given him previously being a Warden when Eb was Captain, scaring her off.
--- End quote ---
No evidence as of yet anyway that Nameless had anything to do with anything, or an agent of anyone.
--- Quote --- may not originated as Human like Mab did, making her even more alien than Mab.
--- End quote ---
Which is why making her Harry's godmother was a huge mistake on Margaret's part. Lea did make attempts to protect Harry, but her idea of protecting him, i.e. making him one of her hunting hounds at one point would hardly convince Harry that she had his best interest at heart, even if she did. Lea never has had a good idea of what the human view of things are.
--- Quote ---My thought on Elaine is this, if Harry could not enslaved as a willing cats paw (and so far nobody has been successful) Elaine gave them another way into the problem, they create a love interest, enslave her and use her to manipulate Harry through conventional means. That why Justin enslaved Elaine first.
--- End quote ---
But even that gets a little murky... There is that moment in Summer Knight when Elaine tells Harry that he was able to get away from Justin because she used a special knot that he could easily get out of.. But then again that scene has changed over the books as well, I doubt that even the flash backs in Ghost Story will be the end of it.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on August 17, 2022, 01:54:38 PM ---Why would the White Court kill Malcolm?
--- End quote ---
They can kill without leaving a trace. And not the Court but one individual. It makes Harry an orphan. Unless you think is was random chance. First isolate Harry and make Malcolm his only attachment point. When the time is right kill Malcolm. Harry goes into the system. This is tailor made to create a sociopath or psychopath or whatever. Harry gets his magic, out pops Justin who mixes cruelty and affection in the right doses and supplies Harry with a sexual partner. You get a monster with a lot of power.
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