The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Winter Lady Restrictions
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 17, 2022, 03:59:34 PM ---I think more pointedly what I think she has always said, " I cannot lie, but since you failed to includeallpossibilities of stars falling from the sky before and after in your question, the untruth is your problembecause I cannot lie. Though one could argue she had all the information, but simply failed to include it, that is your problem because you never asked.
--- End quote ---
I think "shooting stars" are a reasonable take on "stars fall from the sky." I expect this to feature in the BAT; it's a classic apocalyptic trope.
This will free Mab to lie, to betray her bargains, to fail in collecting what's due her, etc.
I'm unclear, however, if this is something Mab is using as a tactical/strategic thing (building up her rep for being such a stickler, then freeing herself from those limitations, the better to fight for Creation), or as a foretelling/warning -- that Nemfection will let her lie &c (as it did Maeve) and she foresees her own fall to Nemfection.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: g33k on October 17, 2022, 03:43:04 PM ---It is part and parcel with the Fae "letter of the law" & hair-splitting attitude.
Fae never flatly-deny that they deceive, or engage in subterfuge. But they do not engage in that part of deception comprised of positively-affirming a known un-truth -- that (and only that) is a "lie" (as language is used by the fae).
Here is an interesting thought-experiment: is there some language which doesn't have all these fine divisions of kinds-of-deception. If there's only one word for all that stuff, do faeries still deny that they do it? Do they then -- bound by their word -- not do any of it??!?
I don't think so; I think Mab is bound in this by Faerie Law. Mab is certainly not sovereign over Titania!
I offer a WAG:
In this quote, Mab isn't saying "I will never lie."
She is saying, "I'm not lying... yet. But I will... after the Stars fall from the sky."
--- End quote ---
Any deception has at it's heart, a lie. You can test this if you so choose. It just isn't explicit. If it were simple we wouldn't need lawyers.
It's debatable if Titania is a peer or something else. Certainly they are Mab's Accords, not Titania's. When Mab shut down all access to portals to the mortal world it included Summer. But my out on this is to look at Mab and Titania as two different sides of the same coin. With a side helping of a third we haven't seen.
For my internal canon Mab's statement means exactly what it says, she holds true to her word.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I'm unclear, however, if this is something Mab is using as a tactical/strategic thing (building up her rep for being such a stickler, then freeing herself from those limitations, the better to fight for Creation), or as a foretelling/warning -- that Nemfection will let her lie &c (as it did Maeve) and she foresees her own fall to Nemfection.
--- End quote ---
She does it all of the time! Right when Harry or someone else says, "that's not what we bargained for!" Her reply is always, "yes, it was, but you neglected to ask this or that or it doesn't mean this or that.." "I cannot lie, if you didn't fully understand the deal, that is your problem."
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 18, 2022, 10:14:18 AM --- She does it all of the time! Right when Harry or someone else says, "that's not what we bargained for!" Her reply is always, "yes, it was, but you neglected to ask this or that or it doesn't mean this or that.." "I cannot lie, if you didn't fully understand the deal, that is your problem."
--- End quote ---
Note that Harry usually acknowledges that, in fact, he does know the rules of Fae bargaining; and, in fact, he did bargain poorly.
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 17, 2022, 11:15:47 PM ---Any deception has at it's heart, a lie. You can test this if you so choose. It just isn't explicit. If it were simple we wouldn't need lawyers.
--- End quote ---
No. It has at its heart dishonesty. A lie is an out and out untruth. Misleading, even intentionally, is not lying.
Let us pretend magical ability can be quantified simply. All people can be classified on a scale from 1 (normals) to 10 (the Merlin).
Harry says:
"The White Council has inducted all wizards of a power level 6 or greater."
"I am a level 7"
One would usually assume Harry is part of the WC.
Well, he WAS. But he is not NOW.
But what did he say was untrue?
He WAS inducted.
He IS a 7.
He did not say "All wizards of power level 6 or greater ARE part of the WC" THAT would be a lie, as he was kicked out.
If he said "The WC screens wizards, and any they find of a level 6 or up are inducted" we are led to believe all level 6 and up are, or have been, part of the WC.
But Elaine is a 6.
But she flunked her tests and they think she's a 4. Harry knows this. But he tried to mislead you.
The Fae are heartless, soulless creatures. They ARE natural lawyers. They draw these distinctions. They let you believe what they want you to believe. Whether or not it is true.
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