The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Winter Lady Restrictions
Mira:
--- Quote ---Just as when Harry was mostly dead Mab acted to fulfill his obligation to train Molly, transferring that obligation to Lea, who was already bound to fulfill Harry's obligation to train Molly as his Godmother.
--- End quote ---
Not so much out of obligation, that merely provided an excuse.. Mab freely admits in Cold Days that because she felt Molly would make a good candidate to become Lady, [though she wanted her for Summer] she prepared her for the role, then in very Mab-like fashion laid the blame all on Harry.
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 16, 2022, 04:09:19 AM ---Winter Law is whatever Mab says it is. And it applies only when she wants it to and then only to the Fae and not the rest. She let the Hobs loose in the train station and I'm pretty sure that most of the dead wouldn't have known or ever heard of Mab. When Lea got uppity during Dead Beat Mab took the Atheme and tortured her until she saw the error of her ways. Not an equal exchange in my book. And that can't lie thing apparently only works on the Queens on some schedule that I can't discern. The rest of her court is composed of Fae keeping busy by knifing each other and plotting for personal gain. A plot is by definition a lie.
--- End quote ---
I tend to think there is some underpinnings of Winter Law beyond simply what Mab says it is. Faerie Law is not just Winter. As noted, Mab kept obligations/favors, which seems to be a Faerie law beyond her realm. Guest rite is too - even the Erlking follows that. So does Summer. Summer rewarded Morgan and Harry with a boon each. And Harry sold his for a donut. And it worked.
And a plot is NOT a lie by definition. A plot does not need to involve a lie at all. It may. It may involve deception or subterfuge, which are NOT lies. Wouldn't you call Titania giving Harry a pin with Fae GPS in it plotting? She did it for future use, as she did with Morgan. Where was the lie? She never SAID she could always track it. She told Morgan they could not track HIM. They didn't. They tracked the pin.
And promises can be twisted. You can give someone something they asked for in a way they did not want. If, say, Rudolph was pursued now by a supernatural being, and ran into Harry and asked Harry to get him to safety - well if Harry tossed his ass in a Demonreach cell, that's pretty safe now, isn't it? Lea considered leaving Harry a hound to keep him safe. i doubt that's what his mom would have wanted.
morriswalters:
For the purposes of the lore Butcher taps into the formality we use to carry on relations in a conflict thus guest right and all that follows. About lying, from my perspective it can be summarized by Mab saying that the Stars will fall from the sky before Mab breaks a promise. It is her will that the Fae don't lie. But of course they do. Deception and subterfuge are lies. They just aren't obvious lies. But I don't insist that you travel down this road with me I just offer it as a counterpoint.
g33k:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 17, 2022, 12:51:54 PM --- ... the Fae don't lie. But of course they do. Deception and subterfuge are lies. They just aren't obvious lies. But I don't insist that you travel down this road with me I just offer it as a counterpoint.
--- End quote ---
It is part and parcel with the Fae "letter of the law" & hair-splitting attitude.
Fae never flatly-deny that they deceive, or engage in subterfuge. But they do not engage in that part of deception comprised of positively-affirming a known un-truth -- that (and only that) is a "lie" (as language is used by the fae).
Here is an interesting thought-experiment: is there some language which doesn't have all these fine divisions of kinds-of-deception. If there's only one word for all that stuff, do faeries still deny that they do it? Do they then -- bound by their word -- not do any of it??!?
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 17, 2022, 12:51:54 PM --- ... It is [Mab's] will that the Fae don't lie...
--- End quote ---
I don't think so; I think Mab is bound in this by Faerie Law. Mab is certainly not sovereign over Titania!
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 17, 2022, 12:51:54 PM --- ... About lying, from my perspective it can be summarized by Mab saying that the Stars will fall from the sky before Mab breaks a promise ...
--- End quote ---
I offer a WAG:
In this quote, Mab isn't saying "I will never lie."
She is saying, "I'm not lying... yet. But I will... after the Stars fall from the sky."
Mira:
--- Quote ---I offer a WAG:
In this quote, Mab isn't saying "I will never lie."
She is saying, "I'm not lying... yet. But I will... after the Stars fall from the sky."
--- End quote ---
I think more pointedly what I think she has always said, " I cannot lie, but since you failed to includeallpossibilities of stars falling from the sky before and after in your question, the untruth is your problembecause I cannot lie. Though one could argue she had all the information, but simply failed to include it, that is your problem because you never asked.
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