The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

In defense of the WC

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g33k:

--- Quote from: Snark Knight on August 12, 2022, 08:32:53 PM --- Debatably also a 3rd was Harry vs. Ariana Ortega. Technically not proper in that the Red King ordered a disadvantageous choice of method to punish her usurpation scheme, instead of having her choose as the challenged party, but still more structured than the one in WN in that it was limited to one means instead of everything-goes.
--- End quote ---

I don't think Harry's challenge was issued under the Accords; the White Council has no real interest in the little girl, so he has no "standing" (legal cause) to challenge.  Neither has the Winter Court.

He was following the Ramps' own internal rules... which have some overlaps with the Unseelie Accords, but aren't entirely the same.  There was a bit of insight on this during the "conversation" between the Eebs and Harry, while the others were fighting the Ik at Rudy's house.  The bloodthirsty Ramps /absolutely/ recognize blood-right for challenge!

(edit: somehow mis-quoted; apologies to @SnarkKnight for the misattribution)

Conspiracy Theorist:

--- Quote from: forumghost on August 14, 2022, 06:00:30 AM ---As far as Molly's facour goes, I think it's more limely to come into play when she needs him to obey a command she usually couldn't give- like, say, one that contradicts an order Mab gave him.

--- End quote ---

No Winter Law would prevent that, both for Harry and Molly UNLESS Molly were to give additional detail to the original order overlooked by Mab initially and she wouldn’t need to use a favour for that. For example Mab orders Harry to find a particular mortal for her, and kill them. Molly modifies it “but you are to use only mortal methods, so as not to draw supernatural attention” in an effort to slow Harry down and give him time to figure out a way around the order e.g. he and Butters stop the mortals heart through mortal means, Butters declares him dead and restarts his heart, Harry passes the living mortal to Mab, pleading his case.

This is the whole point of The Law (aside from introducing Nameless/Cowl, and possibly Max). Those subject to Winter Law  ARE  subject to it, BUT loopholes exist which Harry can exploit, and that provides narrative points for Jim, especially for future short stories, a new type of self-contained puzzle for Harry to solve where he wins, but leaves Mab deeply annoyed with him for outwitting her by using Winter Law against her for his own ends.

Con:
Well I mean to be fair Harry played the debt card on Molly first. Harry demanded through his duty to Winter that Winter help the citizens of Chicago due to his actions in the Battle and locking up Ethniu. It allowed Molly to intercede for Winter during Christmas despite triggering and interfering with Kringle's territory. Plus Molly did save Harry's ass when Harry almost publicly told Mab to go screw herself for trying to force Harry into a Marriage with Lara Wraith.

Point being that Harry and Molly are settling into the whole debt dance where they both come out on top and maneuver for the best thing for most people.

morriswalters:
 (Dresden Files) (p. 155). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on August 14, 2022, 05:33:03 AM ---She won't do that. She wants them to give themselves, not her take it.  Taking it is a power play, and not Molly. Too much Molly left.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---“Harry. I need you to be absolutely sure. Once a bargain is done, there’s no going back. And I will hold you to it.” Her expression flickered, for just a second suddenly looking much less sure. “I don’t get a choice about that.”

Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 155). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
My statement isn't about what Molly will do, it's a statement about what Molly could do if she chose to.  And Winter Law would keep Harry from saying no.

Fcrate:
All I'm saying is that their relationship makes favors redundant, be that friendship or work relationship. Remember Mab's offer of canceling the three favors in exchange for his service as a knight? Mab doesn't have to ask Harry for favors, she can order him to do what she wants, and in return she has a specific set of obligations towards him. Same goes for the other two queens.

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