The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Battle ground questions
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 27, 2022, 10:47:55 AM ---It's something he does every now and then. Sometimes it's frustrating, and it often causes disagreements online (oh the horror), but mostly it doesn't matter to me. He's human, he's bound to change his mind or forget things or just make plain old errors. I admit, as the series has gone on more canon-breaking moments have happened and it appears to be becoming more of an issue. I know he cleverly hinted that it might be intentional (which certainly helps get the monkey off his back...for a while), but I am not so sure how much is intentional and how much are genuine mistakes. Hopefully he will find a clever way to rectify most of it (hoping for all of it is madness).
Do the alternate (demonic) forms wield more magic than the human forms? I hadn't really noticed that. Not saying it isn't the case but that would be curious. I don't know why that would make a difference. (click to show/hide) And furthermore, why are some Denarians capable of using magic spells/choose to use magic spells (I am not including physical acts like transformation or Nicodemus's shadow manipulation despite both of those clearly being magic)? Could any bearer of a Coin use magic if they chose and were tutored? Can Nicodemus perform magic spells? If not, why not?
In theory, as the oldest of the Denarians (of which Nicodemus surely is) one would imagine even if Nicodemus originally had the smallest, meanest, most meagre talent eventually he would have become quite proficient. Yet, we haven't seen so much as an "Abracadabra" from him. So does he simply choose to hide that talent? If so, why? There are so many times it would have been useful to perform some evocation magic. Perhaps he can't. Perhaps he is better at Thaumaturgy or another branch. Yet we haven't seen anything to indicate it. My guess is that Nicodemus does not have the right bloodline to be able to perform wizard magic, and all his abilities come directly from his Fallen Angel.
I could be wrong, but isn't stigmata the appearance of the wounds of Christ upon something (a person, a statue, a painting etc)? I get that the Denarians have their Fallen's sigil appear on their heads but is that really the same?
Well, for many reasons (some which are explained in the books and some outside by Jim) we know how important belief is. So to some extent, when it comes to magic there is a sanctity to using it. Of course, there are universal laws that also apply regardless of Harry's belief but you get the idea. To expound on your point, you don't use magic to kill mortals without consequence. Considering Harry has broken that a few times, his consequences are starting to stack up. And likely there will be more of course.
If Harry didn't launch the bloodline curse, who did? Harry might not have set it up or "charged the bow" to use Bob's analogy, but he pulled the trigger. That counts by most definitions, and considering the power behind that curse and the dark magic in it, I can't see how it wouldn't affect Harry on some level. He might not have used magic as such to launch it, but he used his will, which he has to do to use his magic. Using one's free will to set loose powerful magic that causes massive consequences is not far removed from performing such magic really. Only Jim really knows the nuance but I suspect there is a few.
What do you mean by "the Destroyer put some spin on it"? It sounds interesting but I am not sure I follow.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---plural noun: stigmata
1.
a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.
"the stigma of having gone to prison will always be with me"
--- End quote ---
Depending on how you define magic the Denarian's use it constantly. The classic example is that they are immortal in either form. If you mean that they don't throw fireballs then you're right, but that is merely a nod to the fact that there are only so many ways to represent magic in prose.
I'm saying something at a lower level. Butcher made magic a use it or lose it affair. And he used it in a fairly prominent way. He justifies Molly's talent and Charity's lack of talent using this device. You can always say that Marcone had latent powers, but by canon you use them or lose them. Marcone isn't particularly old but he's closer to Charity's age then to Molly's. This at least suggests that Butcher is using deceit to further the story versus having a coherent vision. For theory crafters there are some other implications as well. Take Malcolm. The fact that Eb said that he was a mortal is now meaningless. Because if Harry could miss Marcone, Eb could have missed something similar about Malcolm.
Susan triggered the curse when Harry murdered her. This is one of those arbitrary points in the story where Butcher uses the distinction to keep Harry from using magic to murder directly. He can cut Susan's throat but he can't strike her down with lightening.
On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun. I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Except that it appears that the officials won't have a body.
Any charges at all are exceedingly unlikely (sadly).
--- End quote ---
That is true, I was speaking in a strict legal sense.. However I believe our two Holy Knights might know more that we or Harry do in this case. They said in effect that justice will be done as far as Rudolph goes.. Whether that mean a perpetual seat at the local insane asylum, or some other form of Divine Retribution, it will be handed out and served up to Rudolph on a platter.
--- Quote ---Honestly, the Marcone-always-had-some-magic-theory makes sense to me. I have always found it weird, how well he managed everything in the magical world and how he knew so much and so on. He didn't fit into the story IMHO. But with him being a secret practitioner it actually makes sense. Maybe he was just a one sided talent like Mortimer and his ectomancy, but in his way one of the best. Not council level but no lightweight either.
--- End quote ---
He never struck me as having any magical talent at all. Nor did he need it, he is a very clever cold
predatory crime boss. He began to lust for the power of the supernatural world the minute he witnessed Harry blowing the doors of his night club. A guy with real magical talent wouldn't have been shocked, Marcone was.. So he began his quest to acquire as much as he could, even though he was a mere vanilla human, he had amassed a great deal of influence and power[not the magical kind] that he used to great effect in bargaining with the supernatural world. He couldn't do magic so bought and surrounded himself with magical talent, he tried to buy Harry if you will remember and Harry refused. Now Marcone claimed to respect him for it, but who knows. Harry also made use of Marcone when he could as payment for pulling his goodies out of the fire in the case of the Loop and on Demonreach. Then the relationship started to fall apart when Marcone wouldn't help him in Changes. Then when Namshiel's coin fell into his lap in Small Favor, it presented a temptation that ultimately Marcone couldn't turn away from. Though he may live to regret it, as the old Chinese curse says,"be careful for what you wish for, you may get it."
g33k:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 27, 2022, 09:26:01 PM --- On Chichen Itza there is a two minute span where Harry blanks out. It's meaningful because it is otherwise unnecessary. I suppose this is what they call Chekov's Gun.
--- End quote ---
Hmm. I hadn't really considered it in that light; but I think you're right.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on April 27, 2022, 09:26:01 PM --- I think ID Harry or alternate Harry may not be as squeamish as our Harry and gave the curse a hard push with whatever Butcher is concealing about what Harry is.
--- End quote ---
I think HarryPrime has too much mental discipline for it to be that... But we'll probably see, I guess!
Some other theories:
* Harry has a brand-spanking-fresh WK Mantle that he knows nothing about, other than "power." And Mab has already fiddled his memory once, when she only had a standard fairy-bargain & "emissary" status to work with. And her handmaiden Lea was right on hand. Something-fae seems the most-likely, to me.
* Later on -- in Battle-Ground -- Harry goes ragemode, loses his temper, and tries to kill Rudy. A couple of Knights of the Cross step in; in fact, the ONLY TWO THERE ARE step in! I know they (theoretically) came to Chicago to fight Ethniu, but... that's not their job. Their job is to oppose the Fallen and to redeem the Fallen's Host; if the entire complement of KotC's are tag-teaming one person... odds favor that person being a Denarian.
* Of the "alt!Harrys" the one I think likely is Future!Harry. I'm pretty sure there's a WoJ that before it's all over, Dresden will have majorly broken every single one of the Laws of Magic; that there are entire novels devoted to specific Lawbreak'ing. We have already seen him break the whole Necromancy thing, I suspect, with Dino-Sue (and/or raising all the human(!) shades, to take down Bianca). I am hoping/expecting a "Time-Travel-Harry" novel, where he goes back and re-enters a bunch of his old stories; we already know Jim is taking a lot of inspiration for his "Mirror Mirror" novel from ST:TOS, and I'll point to ST:DS9 episoded "Trial and Tribble-ations" which time-travels back in tthe TOS episode "Trouble with Tribbles."I think any of these are decent explanations for those 2 minutes...
morriswalters:
You may be right. I don't think so but I am not Butcher. So it's a personal bias. On Reddit there has been some talk that he's told the betas that it will all come out in the end.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Harry’s memories are a public play ground, he is the most unreliable of narrators.
However Bonea should have all of Harry’s memories, blocked from him or not they are available to her, and explains her use in the narrative, she is a reliable narrator.
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