The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Are Soul gazes inherently subjective?
RobReece:
Even discounting the subjectivity, they're not precise or all encompassing. Eb even says in TC,
--- Quote ---but there it is. I reckon you 'gazed him, Hoss, but it ain't a lie detector. You know that too.
--- End quote ---
Mira:
--- Quote from: RobReece on March 30, 2022, 04:48:42 PM ---but there it is. I reckon you 'gazed him, Hoss, but it ain't a lie detector. You know that too.,
--- End quote ---
But that is a more complicated answer than it appears to be. So while a soul gaze isn't a lie detector, it might be able to reveal that the person being gazed is the type of person who is prone to lying. I also think that to be an accurate soul gazer takes a lot of experience because there is a lot of nuance to it.
An experienced subject is also able to hide a lot of facts about his or herself, especially if the person doing the gazing is totally inexperienced at it. Best example is Eb and Harry, Eb seemed to know exactly what sixteen year old Harry was about, but sixteen year old Harry saw nothing as far as Eb being his grandfather, or that Eb was the White Council's hit man.
seanham:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 31, 2022, 02:57:16 PM ---Best example is Eb and Harry, Eb seemed to know exactly what sixteen year old Harry was about, but sixteen year old Harry saw nothing as far as Eb being his grandfather, or that Eb was the White Council's hit man.
--- End quote ---
Eb would have taken charge of Harry no matter what the soul gaze showed. As for what Harry saw, I would say that Eb's identity/being is not in being a grandfather nor is it being a hitman. I would guess it's similar to Rawlins in being strong, steady, and protective.
Mira:
--- Quote from: seanham on March 31, 2022, 07:54:25 PM ---Eb would have taken charge of Harry no matter what the soul gaze showed. As for what Harry saw, I would say that Eb's identity/being is not in being a grandfather nor is it being a hitman. I would guess it's similar to Rawlins in being strong, steady, and protective.
--- End quote ---
Or it did, but sixteen year old Harry really didn't know what he was seeing. Nor did Molly at the time of her soul gaze with Harry, he saw all her possible futures, while what she saw made her want to have a sexual relationship because she saw his loneliness. She never saw the the ice water coming for her head to put end to that notion.
g33k:
--- Quote from: SerScot on March 28, 2022, 06:45:37 PM --- Yes, but given the inherent subjectivity… how much good hard objective data really comes from a “soulgaze”?
--- End quote ---
Very very little "hard objective" data... like, is this person a Whampire, or not? Yeah, you can get that as objective data (and such data can be important (e.g. may have saved Ramirez's life)).
But don't discount the idea that you can still get a very great deal of very "good hard objective data" from a 'gaze!
Repeating elements of the Dresden Files include that the "facts" (the "hard data") don't always tell the whole story; and that "objectivity" is more often a fools' errand than not.
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on March 30, 2022, 12:34:24 AM --- ... Basically unless a soul gaze can be recorded and played back to third parties they are worthless ...
--- End quote ---
I think the White Council relies (much!) too heavily on the results of a Soulgaze. But I think calling them "worthless" is even further off-base. They are the single most penetrating way to look into who a person is, down deep. And AFAIK we see no signs that a 'gaze can be substantively defeated, or defended-against (other than refusing to engage).
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on March 30, 2022, 12:34:24 AM ---But then you need to depend upon the veracity of the Warden, fine if it’s Carlos, but Justin DuMorne was a Warden, how many people did he ‘clear’ how many did he ‘damn’ and did he clear some he knew were guilty, and damn some he knew were innocent...
--- End quote ---
I seem to remember (unless I mis-remember?) that Warden SOP is to get at least 3 'gazes on someone who's on trial. That right there would go a long way toward circumventing any DuMornes who would subvert the system that way (if I am misremembering, then clearly they should do it!): if the Warden corps are so corrupt that 3 random individual Wardens can reliably be presumed to deliver any pre-determined testimony you want, then it's game-over and the Bad Guys have already won.
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