The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Star Born (direct quotes compilation)
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 11, 2022, 06:26:47 AM ---What makes you think he's lying? I am curious on what that might be. Good to hang on to such feelings as it's often a good way of spotting a hint.
I seem to remember Margaret went on the run for two years, as you say, and in that time Harry was born. I think Ebenezar tells Harry this. I think she didn't meet Malcolm during this time, but rather at the start, given that's what I believe what gave her the strength to escape. Falling in love does crazy things to people after all.
DC is a reasonable spot as any if the location for the conjunction Light is the most if not all of the USA. But I do suspect it might be a bit smaller than that (i.e. the size of a city). DC could be the place of conception though...I doubt even Jim has the answer to that right now (if it ever becomes relevant). I think it would have to be only the size of a city, maybe smaller, given the amount of star borns.
--- End quote ---
Butcher lies via obfuscation. For instance he's been telling you in bits and pieces what it is that Harry is. He's a nuclear bomb if you will. In Changes everybody just believes that the Red's curse did the deed, except The Merlin. He called the dance back in Scotland.
--- Quote ---“No,” Langtry said. “So they never knew it was coming. Period. We will no longer wage a war with that filth, cold, hot, or otherwise. We’re going to destroy them, root and branch.” He lifted his chin slightly as his voice turned to frost. “We’re going to exterminate them.”
--- End quote ---
So this is how Butcher lies. He does this kind of thing a lot so my working assumption is that he lying whenever his lips are moving.
One thing that I'm not buying on any level is that Malcolm was just Malcolm.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Even if there are 50k special parents give or take, that doesn't address Margaret choosing to be a part of some plot.
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Sure it does, we are talking "potential." To put it another way, thousands of babies are born every minute, all have potential, but to reach it takes something more. It is clear that when Margaret met Malcolm she chose a different path, and then she chose and he agreed to conceive a star child. What we've seen of star children so far and what it looks like Justin was after, star children are not exactly nice.. The series is also about the importance of "balance" as well as "choices." It looks like Harry is that balance, he isn't perfect and he has made some poor choices, but most of the time he tries to do the right thing, it's on his tombstone.
--- Quote ---But Harry's choices don't make him intrinsically special any more than any other individuals choices. He's more special than the average human both because he is a wizard and because he is a star born, and perhaps because of some chosen one thing, and his choices have intensified this. But they don't make him a "special" star born. He doesn't have attributes beyond any of the others as far as we know. He has displayed the regular powers of star born i.e. resisting the power of the Outside and being able to hurt the Outsiders.
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Sure it does, Harry is special and set apart, he resisted a Shadow of one of the Fallen, he is Custodian of the Holy Swords, it is a privilege given to him to know who and who shouldn't be
a Holy Knight be it for a minute or for life when needed. Something you just cannot declare for yourself even if you happen to have the Swords as Murphy found out. He has Soul Fire, this sets him apart, he passed the exam that Hades set up and now has possession of the Holy Relics/weapons, he passed the exam at the island and now is Warden.. He is a whole lot more than a wizard with power to resist Outsiders, he was meant to be a whole lot more, this is hinted at all through the series.
--- Quote ---We don't know how a normal star born would behave as Harry is the benchmark, and we've only met two confirmed star born (possibly three). I don't see a difference between how bad star born act and how bad individuals act.
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For starters, I don't think there is such a thing as "a normal" star born. We know how Drakul and Listens act, bad is bad, Harry is mostly a good person, so what are you trying to say? Nothing special about star born except the Outsider bit that most will never know about because they are just normal people? So what is the point of making it such a big deal in the series?
--- Quote ---
Shiro would have sacrificed himself for the lowest person on the planet. He is just that good of a person. Harry's star born nature had nothing to do with it, and I don't remember Shiro knowing a thing about it. Even if he did, I doubt that played into it whatsoever. That's what being a Knight of the Cross really means.
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Yes, he would, but there is more to it than that.. Page 337 Death Masks..
Harry says it should have been him instead of Shiro, but dying Shiro tells him;
--- Quote ---"No," Shiro said. "There is much you do not understand." He coughed, and pain flashed over his face. "You will."
--- End quote ---
Then he handed over his Sword to Harry to take care of.. A whole lot more Harry doesn't understand even yet.. Harry is special.
--- Quote ---You also haven't addressed when Harry became a star born. When do you propose this happened?
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When he was conceived and born alive.. It isn't about that it is about the special mix of genes! Malcolm is the key, this is what motivated Margaret to have a child by him and he agreed.. They both tell Harry it is unfair the responsibility and trouble they put upon him by conceiving him. We are repeatedly told all though the series that for the most part Harry inherited his father's good nature and good heart.. This is the difference that Margaret was looking for in her star born, this is what sets Harry apart from the likes of Drakul and Listens.
--- Quote ---One thing that I'm not buying on any level is that Malcolm was just Malcolm.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree to a point, though I think Malcolm was just a vanilla human, but some of them are saints.. If Malcolm wasn't, he came very close to being one.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Malcolm was just human, that is to say just the best distilled of all human qualities that makes a Father Forthill, a Nick Angel virtual living saints or a Knight, he is a champion of humanity, free will and the White God, just by being him. That makes him incredibly rare, a human being with only the positive virtues and not the negative vices of humanity, which was why he was such a breath of fresh air to Margaret dealing with a White Council very much steeped in humanity’s vices.
Harry is not that, he has anger aplenty, but kindness, love etc in greater or equal measure, as a Starborn he can turn either way, but he has been lucky in the people he has sought or received guidance from or who have been there at time of crisis. His father an enduring influence, Nick Angel after coming to Chicago, then Murphy, then Michael and Father Forthill, Shiro, Sanya, Butters.
Chicago has a population of 2.7 million, Chicagoland larger 9.5 millionit has produced Malcolm Dresden, Father Forthill, Michael Carpenter, Karin Murphy and Waldo Butters
If you think about it the odds are better than one in a million.
morriswalters:
Finding Malcolm while Margaret is on the run is like finding a 3 pound gold nugget in a pile of random sand. I don't believe it. It assaults my sense of how stories are constructed.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on March 11, 2022, 11:05:08 PM ---Finding Malcolm while Margaret is on the run is like finding a 3 pound gold nugget in a pile of random sand. I don't believe it. It assaults my sense of how stories are constructed.
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I tend to agree with that.. The series is about balance as much as anything else. Heaven decided that the so called "good guys" needed a star born of their own to balance out the likes of Drakul and Listen.
How else do you explain a female wizard on the White Council's most wanted list for the chop? Who Hell according to Chauncy was getting a room ready for her, who Mr Grey described as a "piece of work," who was living with and had a child by a vampire, would even meet by chance,let alone fall so in love with a man so pure and good that she'd completely turn her life on it's ear. What is more, run off with this man, have a child by him knowing full well that it most likely cost her life? I also think it may have something to do with her death curse getting through when others didn't.. Hmm.. Wonder if Lea and Mab had something to do with that?
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