The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
vincentric:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 26, 2021, 08:30:36 PM ---You are ignoring the fact that Namshiel is a fallen angel, even if he isn't an archangel he can wield power beyond the comprehension of most.. So yes, Namshiel could do it without help in my opinion, angels without restraint [the Fallen don't play by the rules, that is why they are fallen] has the power to do it without help.
--- End quote ---
The Fallen are allowed to cheat but any cheating they do the other angels are allowed to balance. If they were throwing around their personal power directly, Uriel and his companions would be allowed to directly interfere. If they had added their power to the Archive, I think she wins the battle outright.
But there is a loophole. Any magic that the Denarians are using is either part of their of their merged forms or an expansion of their host's talent. Given a host with some talent they can teach them magic. But they obviously need a minimum level of talent to work with or else Nic would be a White Council level wizard by now. Thorned Namshiel is probably the best magic user of the Fallen and thus was able to teach Lartessa and Marcone. And even still we're probably only talking an average White Council wizard level not a senior council member or a powerful warden. They're scary because they have superhuman physical abilities to go along with their magic.
morriswalters:
I know what Jim wrote and being a literalist, I believe him unless he says otherwise. If he tells me Namshiel did it, then he did it.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 26, 2021, 11:07:36 PM ---I'm a bit confused. More than Namshiel and Tessa are casting spells in the passages you quoted. Are you saying that while all the Denarians are capable of using magic, and some of them actually do use magic, but only Namshiel is good enough at magic to be an Arctis Tor candidate?
--- End quote ---
No Denarian is that good. I don't read everyone as casting spells. We differ on what we read.
Mab tells you that she and Uriel had a common enemy that day. Who died that was killed by a Knight? I guess Jim needs to be more explicit. YMMV.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on August 27, 2021, 12:54:48 AM ---I know what Jim wrote and being a literalist, I believe him unless he says otherwise. If he tells me Namshiel did it, then he did it.
No Denarian is that good. I don't read everyone as casting spells. We differ on what we read.
Mab tells you that she and Uriel had a common enemy that day. Who died that was killed by a Knight? I guess Jim needs to be more explicit. YMMV.
--- End quote ---
I'm still lost. No Denarian is good enough to do the hellfire at Arctis Tor, but Namshiel did it?
I'm of the camp that Namshiel was likely the source of the hellfire in the attack on Arctis Tor, but I don't follow what you're trying to say.
Perhaps we are differing on what we call spells. I'd call a specific directed instance of magical energy a spell, so things like the shadowy serpent thing and Rosanna's lances of fire qualify as spells. The line gets a bit blurrier with the energy surrounding Deirdre's hair.
morriswalters:
I'm saying Thorned Namshiel was gifted power by Lucifer. It's the first instance of the proxy war between Lucifer and Uriel. At the start of PG Michael is sent out of town. His purpose was to see that Eb and the others get to the second trial in time to keep Harry from coming to blows with the Council. This proxy war is what Harry is angry about in the Chapel in the hospital where he meets Jake at the end of Small Favor.
--- Quote ---And Your angels aren’t allowed to stick their toes in unless the bad guys do it first. But I’ve been running some figures in my head, and when the Denarians pulled up those huge Signs, they had to have a lot of power to do it. A lot of power. More than I could ever have had, even with Lasciel. Archangel power. And I can only think of one of those guys who would have been helping that crew.”
--- End quote ---
Of the seven Lartessa is the one to look at.
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 26, 2021, 02:12:52 PM ---After Changes or at the end of Proven Guilty? Just before he turned the coin over to Father Forthill at the end of Proven Guilty he thought he heard Lash, that scared him so he got rid of the coin. In Changes it is implied that it was Lasciel that goaded him into suicide, the coin still could have been locked away in Forthill's office. I don't think she affected Harry after that, implied or otherwise.
--- End quote ---
You're getting your timelines muddled there. The coin was under his lab before PG and it stayed there until the end of book 9 (WN). In book 12 (Changes) it has been several years since book 9 so it would be exceedingly unlikely that Forthill hadn't passed the coin along by then.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 27, 2021, 01:08:03 AM ---I'm still lost. No Denarian is good enough to do the hellfire at Arctis Tor, but Namshiel did it?
I'm of the camp that Namshiel was likely the source of the hellfire in the attack on Arctis Tor, but I don't follow what you're trying to say.
Perhaps we are differing on what we call spells. I'd call a specific directed instance of magical energy a spell, so things like the shadowy serpent thing and Rosanna's lances of fire qualify as spells. The line gets a bit blurrier with the energy surrounding Deirdre's hair.
--- End quote ---
Namshiel is the magic nerd of the denarians that's part of why he's singled out as the prime suspect even though Rosanna's thing is fire, fire and more fire.
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