The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who summoned the Cornerhounds?
vincentric:
But if Justine is not driving, then how do the cornerhounds get summoned?
I doubt she would have sent Thomas on a suicide mission and then summoned an assassination squad against Harry of her own choice. That was Nemesis. And if it can summon Outsiders with controlled victims, then why do it in the backyard of the defenders of reality instead of a secluded hidden fortress?
Don't get me wrong. I love these books and I hope I survive to see the end of the story. But there are plot holes and inconsistencies just not enough to ruin it for me.
morriswalters:
The specificity of the creature called makes no sense in the ongoing plot.
Jim hasn't been entirely consistent but no character that I can think of has done anything like a summoning without it being signaled somewhere in the books. So scotch the Doorman. We've seen a ritual to call them and it was long and involved(aka Madge) so time is a factor. And Harry was looking for Magic when Eb found him. Wherever the attack came from, it wasn't in the close vicinity of Harry and Eb.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 05:16:20 AM ---One thing to consider is that Justine/Nemesis has a wizard ally capable of summoning Outsiders.... Listen could be that person. He's a Starborn.... Perhaps that's why he betrayed Ethniu, because he's an agent of Nemesis. Morgan was worried that Harry, as a Starborn was an "agent of Nemesis".
--- End quote ---
WOJ was that starborn don't have to worry about being hijacked by Nemesis, although I suppose Listen could have made a deal to serve their side willingly as Harry has been offered a few times. I don't think he's shown any talent whatsoever, though - he was giving Molly trouble just by being an intelligent warrior (sort of like dark side anti-Murphy). I don't think she'd have done even as well as she did as the Rag Lady against him if he had magic too.
Could just be that long-term nemfected try to get a Circle / Black Council ally near them (or on call to be able to get near them on short notice through the Ways) to handle this sort of thing for them.
Mira:
--- Quote from: vincentric on August 22, 2021, 02:53:29 PM ---But if Justine is not driving, then how do the cornerhounds get summoned?
I doubt she would have sent Thomas on a suicide mission and then summoned an assassination squad against Harry of her own choice. That was Nemesis. And if it can summon Outsiders with controlled victims, then why do it in the backyard of the defenders of reality instead of a secluded hidden fortress?
Don't get me wrong. I love these books and I hope I survive to see the end of the story. But there are plot holes and inconsistencies just not enough to ruin it for me.
--- End quote ---
On her own, no, Justine wouldn't do that, but she has been infected for some time now.. Her mind has been affected, and even though she isn't what she was, she is still a mortal, and as a mortal she will do the bidding of the voices she hears in her head.. So while Nemesis might be driving, Justine is still the car, it is her mortal horn that is blowing to call up the Cornerhounds. Madge wasn't possessed, Justine is, do perhaps in that case no ritual needed. Heck one might not have been needed in the case of Madge, but it was a way of brainwashing her. In the case of Lea and Maeve, nothing was called up but Nemesis was able to infect via the Knife.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM ---Perhaps, but that was the sentence that tips Harry off that something isn't right about Justine. He says it at the apartment when she first says it and later on the boat, it was a tip off. So while you may think it is understandable, Harry's gut reaction was that there was something not quite right about it. Perhaps it wasn't so much what she said but how she said it.
--- End quote ---
Sure, it's a little weird, and with time to think it probably helps Harry put the pieces together on the boat.
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM ---No, her brain had already been taken over, she wasn't tricked, she'd already contrived to get pregnant by that time and proceed to push Thomas into committing murder. Are you saying that
she was still sweet normal Justine at that point? Because she wasn't.
--- End quote ---
But taken over, Justine wasn't the one in control. No mortal free will there to summon outsiders. I'm saying she wasn't just Justine at that point, so she couldn't summon outsiders. (Thomas got it on with Nem!Justine. It was HWWB in the driver's seat.)
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM ---Go back and read what He Who Walks Beside says, yes, they want to end reality, but they want to do it slowly from with in.. They are kind of like a cat playing with a mouse, it could end it quickly but it isn't.. It revels in the rot from with in.
--- End quote ---
Nah, they aren't sneaky because they want to toy with reality. They're sneaky because that's their only option to destroy reality.
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 10:22:23 AM ---Yes, and lets not forget that is what Lord Raith did, he managed to recruit and brainwash Madge in order to summon Outsiders. She was a low level practitioner.
--- End quote ---
Raith tricked Madge into helping him. It's not the same thing as possessing her.
--- Quote from: vincentric on August 22, 2021, 02:53:29 PM ---But if Justine is not driving, then how do the cornerhounds get summoned?
I doubt she would have sent Thomas on a suicide mission and then summoned an assassination squad against Harry of her own choice. That was Nemesis. And if it can summon Outsiders with controlled victims, then why do it in the backyard of the defenders of reality instead of a secluded hidden fortress?
Don't get me wrong. I love these books and I hope I survive to see the end of the story. But there are plot holes and inconsistencies just not enough to ruin it for me.
--- End quote ---
Yep, exactly. Nemesis can't force mortals to summon outsiders, or the Outer Gates would be barely a speed bump for them. At best, it can trick them into doing it willingly.
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