The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who summoned the Cornerhounds?
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 03:22:55 AM ---What are the motivations of Nemesis then in your estimation? Back to your point of Justine being rid of Harry, physically maybe, but that in no way makes her rid of him. No, I think Harry's cut reaction is dead on to Justine's reaction, "does Lara know?" Sorry that isn't normal, especially when you add what Eb says about a star born like Harry and why he poses a danger to Outsiders, he can see through their crap! That is why the boat trip ultimately fails for Nemesis, when it is calm, even though exhausted, Harry finally sees through her. Justine also knows to bring Lara in not because she will help Thomas, but because she will be sympathetic to her! Lara won't be able to see through Justine, but Harry has that ability, she needs Lara to take her side. Which she does and insists that Harry take her to Thomas on the boat.
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Nemesis wants to end reality. After it sent Thomas to kill Etri, it was only a matter of time before Harry figured out Justine was the culprit. Physically being rid of him for a couple hours was fine at that point.
"Does Lara know?" isn't that far out there (with the caveat that it was a Nemesis screw up in actuality). It's understandable that Lara would come to mind for Justine as someone she worked with daily and who she knows loves Thomas as well.
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 03:22:55 AM ---You are totally ignoring the fact that we are now talking about infected Justine... Infected Justine who admits on the boat that she worked to get pregnant to set Thomas up. In short, she is no longer playing with a full deck, an insane person still has free will, it might not be rational, but as a mortal she is free to call up the Cornerhounds.
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So you're saying that Justine had an episode of insanity and was tricked by Nemesis into summoning outsiders? Sorry, I don't buy that either.
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 03:22:55 AM ---Think Justine of the boat trip at the end of Battle Ground, not sweet Justine of the earlier books. At the beginning of the trip she was so sweet so concerned about Thomas, she hugs Harry.. Then she asks why he did what he did? Then she questions Harry and sort of confesses "Were they trying to use us,against him?" Us? As in her and the baby? Who was? Then Harry goes to rest because he is exhausted. He starts to replay all of what had happened in his mind. 1] That Thomas had been trying to say Justine. Not calling out the name of his love, but that she made him do it. 2] Then he returns to the scene in the apartment,
The sweet Justine kind of melts away, just that quick.. Oh the body is there and the beautiful face, but it isn't her at all. Then He Who Walks Beside, explains who he is and his mission, which should answer all your questions as to why Outsiders aren't summoned up as armies to get it over with it just isn't their style... They'd rather go about it this way;
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Outsiders want to end reality. They don't particularly care how it comes about. "Not their style" isn't convincing.
The reason that Nemesis is sneaky is because forcing mortals to summon an unstoppable army of outsiders isn't an option, i.e. forcing Justine to summon the cornerhounds isn't an option.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 22, 2021, 03:52:48 AM ---The reason that Nemesis is sneaky is because forcing mortals to summon an unstoppable army of outsiders isn't an option, i.e. forcing Justine to summon the cornerhounds isn't an option.
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One thing to consider is that Justine/Nemesis has a wizard ally capable of summoning Outsiders.... Listen could be that person. He's a Starborn.... Perhaps that's why he betrayed Ethniu, because he's an agent of Nemesis. Morgan was worried that Harry, as a Starborn was an "agent of Nemesis".
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 05:16:20 AM ---One thing to consider is that Justine/Nemesis has a wizard ally capable of summoning Outsiders.... Listen could be that person. He's a Starborn.... Perhaps that's why he betrayed Ethniu, because he's an agent of Nemesis. Morgan was worried that Harry, as a Starborn was an "agent of Nemesis".
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Listen is more likely than Justine, but I still don't like him for it. You don't insert creatures famously associated with time travel into a story without there being time travel involved.
As a side note, starborn isn't a subcategory of wizard, is it? We've never seen Listen throw around any magic.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 05:16:20 AM ---One thing to consider is that Justine/Nemesis has a wizard ally capable of summoning Outsiders.... Listen could be that person. He's a Starborn.... Perhaps that's why he betrayed Ethniu, because he's an agent of Nemesis. Morgan was worried that Harry, as a Starborn was an "agent of Nemesis".
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they also kidnapped a bunch of low level practitioners, likely to brainwash them into service (though, perhaps to harvest resources.. or make kraken for some reason)
Mira:
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 05:16:20 AM ---One thing to consider is that Justine/Nemesis has a wizard ally capable of summoning Outsiders.... Listen could be that person. He's a Starborn.... Perhaps that's why he betrayed Ethniu, because he's an agent of Nemesis. Morgan was worried that Harry, as a Starborn was an "agent of Nemesis".
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You don't have to be a star born to summon an Outsider, at least I don't think you do. Was Madge a star born?
--- Quote ---Nemesis wants to end reality. After it sent Thomas to kill Etri, it was only a matter of time before Harry figured out Justine was the culprit. Physically being rid of him for a couple hours was fine at that point.
"Does Lara know?" isn't that far out there (with the caveat that it was a Nemesis screw up in actuality). It's understandable that Lara would come to mind for Justine as someone she worked with daily and who she knows loves Thomas as well.
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Perhaps, but that was the sentence that tips Harry off that something isn't right about Justine. He says it at the apartment when she first says it and later on the boat, it was a tip off. So while you may think it is understandable, Harry's gut reaction was that there was something not quite right about it. Perhaps it wasn't so much what she said but how she said it.
--- Quote ---So you're saying that Justine had an episode of insanity and was tricked by Nemesis into summoning outsiders? Sorry, I don't buy that either.
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No, her brain had already been taken over, she wasn't tricked, she'd already contrived to get pregnant by that time and proceed to push Thomas into committing murder. Are you saying that
she was still sweet normal Justine at that point? Because she wasn't.
--- Quote ---Outsiders want to end reality. They don't particularly care how it comes about. "Not their style" isn't convincing.
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Go back and read what He Who Walks Beside says, yes, they want to end reality, but they want to do it slowly from with in.. They are kind of like a cat playing with a mouse, it could end it quickly but it isn't.. It revels in the rot from with in.
--- Quote ---they also kidnapped a bunch of low level practitioners, likely to brainwash them into service (though, perhaps to harvest resources.. or make kraken for some reason)
--- End quote ---
Yes, and lets not forget that is what Lord Raith did, he managed to recruit and brainwash Madge in order to summon Outsiders. She was a low level practitioner.
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