The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who summoned the Cornerhounds?
Mira:
--- Quote ---Sure, it's a little weird, and with time to think it probably helps Harry put the pieces together on the boat.
--- End quote ---
The point is, he knew it was off when she said it the first time out.. Just like in his conversation with Cat Sith, he pressed and Nemesis revealed itself. He didn't press Justine in the apartment because he was already distracted by what Thomas had did,what had happened to him and his fears for Justine.
--- Quote ---But taken over, Justine wasn't the one in control. No mortal free will there to summon outsiders. I'm saying she wasn't just Justine at that point, so she couldn't summon outsiders. (Thomas got it on with Nem!Justine. It was HWWB in the driver's seat.)
--- End quote ---
Do you not think that it is possible that at that point Nemesis could threaten, Justine, Thomas, and more importantly her baby? The threat was enough for Thomas to foolishly try to murder and disrupt the Accords.. So is it not logical that that kind of threat would push the mortal Justine to call up the Cornerhounds? Yeah, it was HWWB in the driver's seat, and he pushed Justine to blow the horn.
--- Quote ---Nah, they aren't sneaky because they want to toy with reality. They're sneaky because that's their only option to destroy reality.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for making my argument... You are answering your own question as to why they just don't get someone to call up a whole army.
--- Quote ---Raith tricked Madge into helping him. It's not the same thing as possessing her.
--- End quote ---
No it is not, but the point is, he got a mortal to help him call up an Outsider.. Justine wasn't always the sane little thing we see today let us not forget.. Nemesis occupies her brain, but her mind still exists, no doubt they communicate, who knows what Nemesis is telling her, it could very well have tricked her into seeing Harry as come kind of threat to her and her baby, thus the mortal Justine does what needs to be done with a little umph from Nemesis to call up the Cornerhounds.
--- Quote ---Yep, exactly. Nemesis can't force mortals to summon outsiders, or the Outer Gates would be barely a speed bump for them. At best, it can trick them into doing it willingly.
--- End quote ---
Which it did, I don't think Nemesis can possess someone if they are unwilling either.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on August 22, 2021, 05:48:51 AM ---Listen is more likely than Justine, but I still don't like him for it. You don't insert creatures famously associated with time travel into a story without there being time travel involved.
--- End quote ---
Could you give some info on this? I looked up Corner Hounds and it only talked about them being creatures from Peace Talks and no mention of time travel. That is a big deal and tend to agree time travel was going on if this is the case.
--- Quote ---As a side note, starborn isn't a subcategory of wizard, is it? We've never seen Listen throw around any magic.
--- End quote ---
My understanding based on WoJ is that anyone can be a Starborn as long as they are in the right place at the right time (I also believe they have to be born at that time but he didn't say that in his last interview). So I could see a lot of people with no wizarding talent at all that are Starborn.
Listen may not be a wizard but he does seem to understand the wizarding stuff by the things he's done:
"Listen is sent as a messenger to the Grey Ghost, who he addresses as "Lady Shade", from Lord Omogh.[1] He was also the leader of the gang of Fomor servitors that attacked Molly Carpenter.[2]
Like all servitors, he wears a black turtleneck. His eyes have changed from a clear grey during the combat with Molly Carpenter to a deep purple like a "bruised corpse" during the visit with the Grey Ghost. In Bombshells he is described as a pale skinned, fit man of middle height with dark, intelligent eyes and a military short haircut.[1][3]
Listen is able to remain cool and observant in the midst of combat. He figured out Molly's illusions and was smart enough to wait out Harry Dresden's fire spell until it wore out.[2] When dealing with the Grey Ghost, Listen could disarm her by displaying his humility and loyalty to his Lord.[1] He has the protection of the Fomor Empress, as the Fomor Lord in "Bombshells" points out (when discussing Listen) that he would not be so stupid as to kill a "special pet of the Empress" even in an "accident".[3]
His weaponry include "seashell bombs": tiny nuclear-like blasts,[2] in addition to a gun and what appears to be a wakizashi[Footnote 1] or a ninja-to
"
I don't know if he has wizard level magic but I figure he must have some level of talent to figure out Molly's illusions.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 07:00:32 PM ---The point is, he knew it was off when she said it the first time out.. Just like in his conversation with Cat Sith, he pressed and Nemesis revealed itself. He didn't press Justine in the apartment because he was already distracted by what Thomas had did,what had happened to him and his fears for Justine.
--- End quote ---
Fine, already distracted, so no need for Justine to summon cornerhounds, even if she could.
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 07:00:32 PM ---Do you not think that it is possible that at that point Nemesis could threaten, Justine, Thomas, and more importantly her baby? The threat was enough for Thomas to foolishly try to murder and disrupt the Accords.. So is it not logical that that kind of threat would push the mortal Justine to call up the Cornerhounds? Yeah, it was HWWB in the driver's seat, and he pushed Justine to blow the horn.
--- End quote ---
You think that Nemesis can threaten Justine into helping kill the person that has the best chance of saving Thomas?
--- Quote from: Mira on August 22, 2021, 07:00:32 PM ---Thank you for making my argument... You are answering your own question as to why they just don't get someone to call up a whole army.
--- End quote ---
Because they can't call up a whole army. Not on their own. They can't just strong arm mortals into doing it. Justine didn't call up the cornerhounds.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 07:21:52 PM ---Could you give some info on this? I looked up Corner Hounds and it only talked about them being creatures from Peace Talks and no mention of time travel. That is a big deal and tend to agree time travel was going on if this is the case.
--- End quote ---
Butters calls them the Hounds of Tindalos.
--- Quote from: groinkick on August 22, 2021, 07:21:52 PM ---My understanding based on WoJ is that anyone can be a Starborn as long as they are in the right place at the right time (I also believe they have to be born at that time but he didn't say that in his last interview). So I could see a lot of people with no wizarding talent at all that are Starborn.
Listen may not be a wizard but he does seem to understand the wizarding stuff by the things he's done:
"Listen is sent as a messenger to the Grey Ghost, who he addresses as "Lady Shade", from Lord Omogh.[1] He was also the leader of the gang of Fomor servitors that attacked Molly Carpenter.[2]
Like all servitors, he wears a black turtleneck. His eyes have changed from a clear grey during the combat with Molly Carpenter to a deep purple like a "bruised corpse" during the visit with the Grey Ghost. In Bombshells he is described as a pale skinned, fit man of middle height with dark, intelligent eyes and a military short haircut.[1][3]
Listen is able to remain cool and observant in the midst of combat. He figured out Molly's illusions and was smart enough to wait out Harry Dresden's fire spell until it wore out.[2] When dealing with the Grey Ghost, Listen could disarm her by displaying his humility and loyalty to his Lord.[1] He has the protection of the Fomor Empress, as the Fomor Lord in "Bombshells" points out (when discussing Listen) that he would not be so stupid as to kill a "special pet of the Empress" even in an "accident".[3]
His weaponry include "seashell bombs": tiny nuclear-like blasts,[2] in addition to a gun and what appears to be a wakizashi[Footnote 1] or a ninja-to
"
I don't know if he has wizard level magic but I figure he must have some level of talent to figure out Molly's illusions.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I don't think starborn are a subcategory of wizards either. It's not too hard to figure out that Molly might be using illusions based on her past history. I think Listen is just especially competent from what we've seen so far.
Mira:
--- Quote ---ou think that Nemesis can threaten Justine into helping kill the person that has the best chance of saving Thomas?
--- End quote ---
Yes,if it threatens to kill her baby..
--- Quote ---Because they can't call up a whole army. Not on their own. They can't just strong arm mortals into doing it. Justine didn't call up the cornerhounds.
--- End quote ---
Why not? It managed to strong arm Thomas into becoming an assassin which could have led to the down fall of the Accords, which could lead to worse. And then again, it may not have strong armed her, it may have tricked her, who knows? You forget how Maeve managed to convince Lily to go along with her by skillful lying. The Fae are not supposed to lie, but when infected she did very well. Nemesis can lie, so who knows what that voice was saying in her head. HWWB is a slimy character, hell yeah he could have talked her into it.
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