The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Something Occured to Me as to Why the Senior Council is so Afraid of Harry
Mira:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on January 29, 2021, 12:55:19 PM ---Don't forget the forced empathy for Rudolph, the intent was nicer but the sword did the same thing that the WK mantle did in twisting Harry's emotional state in a desired direction.
--- End quote ---
It did what it needed to do. Harry didn't feel empathy for Rudolph, but at the day care, he knew that Rudolph wasn't playing with a full deck either. In other words, Harry was very rational about him, so was Bradley, Rudolph was knocked out so the kids could be gotten to safety. However Harry had other problems and in the confusion, Rudolph came to with a gun with in reach. He took it and in his insane panic murdered Murphy senselessly. At that point in his emotional response to her murder, it was impossible for Harry to respond rationally. He responded with rage, the reptilian parts of his brain responded and screamed for retribution. Harry is no normal human that can be grabbed and pinned down until he came to his senses again, he is a wizard. Not only a wizard, but the Winter Knight, with a mantle that was screaming "HEEHA" adding all the fuel it could to the rage.
It wasn't until the shock of the Holy burn from the Sword cut though it all, was he able to come to his senses, and yeah, again feel a degree of empathy for Rudolph. However it won't be till Rudolph is actually tried, if he is tried, and Harry forgives him will we know if the empathy is real or not.
--- Quote ---Nothing about it worries me at all. He's a fictional character. Jim's did it for a reason and you are getting my opinion on what the reason is. There is a reason for showing Harry experiencing that loss of control. Jim has Harry quote a line from Marvel comics. "With great power comes great responsibility." Is this suddenly not true in the canon of the books because Harry is having a bad day? In the real world I don't know any crime lords or superheroes. Nor do I have any desire to. In Battle Ground these fictional caharacters kill 60000 people. Why would you want to know them?
--- End quote ---
Yes, but in the moment of Murphy's death, Harry cannot be held responsible for his first reaction.
--- Quote ---A friend got me moving out of the house. For the record it never occurred to me to attack him. Unless there is an underlying mental illness you can't maintain that level of anger for very long. It drains you. There is even a nickname for what happens. Amygdala hijack.
--- End quote ---
Why do you think your friend got you moving out of the house? Maybe it never occurred to you to attack him, but apparently it did to him. Otherwise, why remove you?
And his friends attempted to do just that. However the reaction to Murphy's death set off the mantle in a moment when Harry wasn't capable of controlling it, the only thing that could stop it was an archangel, sent a shock to reboot Harry's brain and he could gain control once more.
Mira:
--- Quote from: forumghost on January 28, 2021, 09:50:18 PM ---I mean I feel like the real difference in Harry's case is that when he snapped and went after Rudolph he was no longer in a position to keep the Winter Knight in Check.
Harry was not running the show there until Butter's snapped him back out of it- it was evident in the way he was happy that Sanya was there because "Yay, he'd put up more of a fight" and the way he referred to Rudolph as "that thing". It was very much reminiscent of when he leaned too hard on the Mantle at the end of Cold Days.
--- End quote ---
Exactly..
--- Quote ---If it were reasonable then why did both Sanya and Butters work so hard to stop him? And I don't care if you use reason as explanation or reason as a rational way of thinking. In the real world I wouldn't let him in close, and I'd question his ability to raise a child. I wouldn't want him next to me in any capacity where I had to depend on him. Especially if he couldn't tell friend from foe when he gets angry.
--- End quote ---
They wanted to prevent him from doing harm knowing full well that he wasn't responsible for what he was doing at the moment.
Really? You've never lost your temper in your whole life? You've always been lucky enough that nothing has touched you emotionally enough to where you'd lose control? What went on in Harry's head when he witnessed Murphy's senseless murder went beyond anger.. The real world is full of good people who've lost it for good reasons but did serious harm because no one was there to stop them. Emotions are a double edged sword, everyone has them, most of the time we keep them in control, but everyone has their limit. Harry has worked on control all of his life, when he realized that Lasciel and the use of Hell Fire was pushing him unknowingly out of control, he put a damper on it. When he realized the power of the Winter Knight's mantle and what it does, he worked very hard to counter it's effects on him.. That is what he was doing on the beach that morning when Ramirez paid him that visit.. But Murphy's murder pushed him over the edge, a very normal reaction, but dangerous given his power and strength, the Winter Knight's mantle added fuel.. When it was over it was over.. Harry isn't some out of control brutal monster unfit to raise little Maggie, or someone you cannot trust as a friend, on the contrary.
Arjan:
But he can become one. A lot of the story is based on that.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 29, 2021, 04:29:13 PM ---But he can become one. A lot of the story is based on that.
--- End quote ---
No one is saying he cannot, he is aware of it, that is why he is trying so hard to control it. That is
another reason for his shame because that burn made him aware of how close he came to it. If he had succeeded in killing Rudolph I believe he could have very well gone past the point of no return. He has been fighting the mantle ever since he agreed to take it up.
morriswalters:
@Mira
You just pushed a wall of text at me arguing a point I'm not making. I'm not seeking to hold a fictional character responsible for anything. I'm suggesting that Jim is writing a character who is an antithesis of who the character professes to be. The point is did Justin, the character, shape Harry to be what he becomes when he is enraged. I've been referring to Grave Peril but that was a mistake in attribution. It's Blood Rites.
--- Quote from: Blood Rites ---"No," Ebenezar said. "You've got to breathe, boy. Think."
I started gathering power. "Kill him. Kill him. Everything. All of it. Nothing left."
"Harry," Ebenezar snapped. "Harry, let go. You can't handle that kind of power. You'll kill yourself if you try."
I didn't care about that, either. The power felt too good—too strong. I wanted it. I wanted Raith to pay. I wanted him to suffer, screaming, and then die for what he had done to me. And I was strong enough to make it happen. I had the power and the resolve to bring such a tide of magic against him that he would be utterly destroyed. I would lay him low and make him howl for mercy before I tore him apart. He deserved nothing less.
And then fire blossomed in my hand again, so sudden and sharp that my back convulsed into an agonized arch, and I fell to the floor. I couldn't scream. The pain washed my fury away like dandelions before a flash flood. I looked around wildly and saw the old man's broad, calloused hand clamped down over my burned, lightly bandaged flesh with bruising strength. When he saw my eyes he released my hand, his expression sickened.
--- End quote ---
There is no Mantle at this point and Lash has not yet surfaced although she may be influencing him. He will also go a little crazy at Camp Kaboom. This has been ongoing throughout the series.
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