The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Elders of the Black Court
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on December 16, 2020, 10:00:48 AM ---Agreed. I honestly would have preferred Drakul was saved up a bit more and had more time to be worked on.
Appreciate it! Good point, they were hardly scarier than Mavra herself and barely her brood. Even if you take into account Harry and Co. have grown in power and skill, it still doesn't make sense. Then again, this is exactly what happened to the Denarians. Also, no use of Faith magic by Harry or any of the others?? I get they didn't have garlic or daylight etc. And why didn't Harry use that special "how to control Black Court Vampires with Necromancy spell" from the Word of Kemmler?
Also surely Drakul has the Word of Kemmler...so why hasn't he used it yet? Is he waiting for a convenient trip to Chicago because all the other major population centres are booked out for ascension rituals?
This has to be the most likely explanation lol. Love the "Emily in Paris" bit especially. But yeah, glad I am not the only one confused by Drakul's apparently light touch.
--- End quote ---
Because roll for sanity loss with each use.
--- Quote ---When Dresden threatened to use necromancy against the Black Court, was that something he learned directly from the Word of Kemmler that was part of the book or was it just that he learned more about how they worked with necromancy?
Oh no Kemmler had a recipe, "how to make a Black Court vampire your bitch", he had that. That was practically the name of the spell. Dresden's like "oh yeah I see how that works now yeah I can screw you up ". It'd do horrible things to him, roll 3D6 that's how many sanity points you lose. Like that.
--- End quote ---
Mira:
--- Quote ---I think that's confirmed, we don't need to assume it as it came straight from Drakul.
--- End quote ---
I get that but it totally clashes with what Jim said about him in 2015!
--- Quote ---And also what is Drakul a scion of?
Drakul wasn’t a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form. Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father’s approval.
It didn’t work out so well.
2015 AMA
--- End quote ---
So apparently one doesn't have to be human to be star born, or someone tried for it and screwed up.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: Mira on December 16, 2020, 05:20:24 PM ---I get that but it totally clashes with what Jim said about him in 2015!
So apparently one doesn't have to be human to be star born, or someone tried for it and screwed up.
--- End quote ---
you don't, you don't have to be Mortal. It's in a new Woj I just read in the transcription section thanks to TCFs work.
Jim implies you just have to be very unlucky.. I'm wondering if it's simply being Starborn is unlucky or he specifically meant being an immortal Starborn is unlucky. Drakul did end up stuck in a mortal(ish) she'll after all.
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on December 16, 2020, 10:00:48 AM ---And why didn't Harry use that special "how to control Black Court Vampires with Necromancy spell" from the Word of Kemmler?
--- End quote ---
Yes, all Harry needed to reanimate Sue was Butters acting as his drummer. I could see Harry having a future conversation about that night with Bob which ends with Bob saying something like, "Harry you idiot. You went toe to toe with Mavra and three Black Court vamps older than her and you didn't try to sock puppet them with necromancy." You also have to wonder if Drakul is alive or undead. If not alive, necromancy should work against him as well.
The only reasonable defense Harry might have for not using necromancy was there was a mortal who was about to be sacrificed. Perhaps pulling off the spell would have taken longer than Harry believed he could wait.
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on December 16, 2020, 10:00:48 AM ---
Also surely Drakul has the Word of Kemmler...so why hasn't he used it yet? Is he waiting for a convenient trip to Chicago because all the other major population centres are booked out for ascension rituals?
--- End quote ---
Mavra was acting as the drummer, so I think that means she wasn't doing the spell; however, Mavra was the one who got the word of Kemmler from Harry. So, did she teach the spell to one of the older Black Court vampires or to Drakul him itself? The whole thing was just a charade so Drakul to gather up some new recruits. It seems odd that he picked out Wardens Wild Bill and Yoshino. What was special about them? At some point, I'd like an explanation for that.
For whatever reason, Jim didn't want to give us anything substantial to ponder over other than wondering what "Stars and Stones" actually means. Personally, I found that somewhat disappointing. We've been waiting for Drakul to appear since he was first mentioned in Blood Rites, which was published in August, 2004. I started reading the Dresden Files novels in late 2006, so I got to Blood Rites sometime in 2007. That's a long time to wait; and when Drakul finally makes an appearance all we learn is that he resembles an ivory statue, he eats Starborns like they were his Wheaties and something called the "Stars and Stones" is going to happen soon.
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on December 16, 2020, 10:04:33 AM ---Because roll for sanity loss with each use.
--- End quote ---
Always thought that was a rather weak explanation especially considering it didn't make Dresden's threat all that credible. He might have been bluffing but it's hardly a workable spell if he can't use it. It more sounded like Jim forgot he wrote it and came up with an explanation to dig himself out of the hole he wrote himself into. But fair enough then. Still doesn't explain the lack of Faith magic though.
--- Quote from: Mira on December 16, 2020, 05:20:24 PM ---I get that but it totally clashes with what Jim said about him in 2015!
So apparently one doesn't have to be human to be star born, or someone tried for it and screwed up.
--- End quote ---
Mmm. I am not so sure it does clash necessarily...but I can't be certain either. It could be that (as a possible explanation) that Drakul was born a starborn and became a monster (and so is a "what can go wrong" type of thing). Sibelis is right - the WOJ seems to confirm you don't have to be mortal to be starborn. There is certainly a missing link. I think a better question is why is Drakul a starborn? What does being a starborn get him? What does it do the story to have him as one?
It wouldn't even surprise me to learn of other Immortals and semi-immortals who are also "starborn" whatever that means. But Jim also says it's really unlucky, so it probably isn't that many.
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on December 17, 2020, 01:07:40 AM ---Yes, all Harry needed to reanimate Sue was Butters acting as his drummer. I could see Harry having a future conversation about that night with Bob which ends with Bob saying something like, "Harry you idiot. You went toe to toe with Mavra and three Black Court vamps older than her and you didn't try to sock puppet them with necromancy." You also have to wonder if Drakul is alive or undead. If not alive, necromancy should work against him as well.
The only reasonable defense Harry might have for not using necromancy was there was a mortal who was about to be sacrificed. Perhaps pulling off the spell would have taken longer than Harry believed he could wait.
Mavra was acting as the drummer, so I think that means she wasn't doing the spell; however, Mavra was the one who got the word of Kemmler from Harry. So, did she teach the spell to one of the older Black Court vampires or to Drakul him itself? The whole thing was just a charade so Drakul to gather up some new recruits. It seems odd that he picked out Wardens Wild Bill and Yoshino. What was special about them? At some point, I'd like an explanation for that.
For whatever reason, Jim didn't want to give us anything substantial to ponder over other than wondering what "Stars and Stones" actually means. Personally, I found that somewhat disappointing. We've been waiting for Drakul to appear since he was first mentioned in Blood Rites, which was published in August, 2004. I started reading the Dresden Files novels in late 2006, so I got to Blood Rites sometime in 2007. That's a long time to wait; and when Drakul finally makes an appearance all we learn is that he resembles an ivory statue, he eats Starborns like they were his Wheaties and something called the "Stars and Stones" is going to happen soon.
--- End quote ---
Could well be that alive or dead is a bit of a grey area with Drakul. I suspect a good in-universe explanation for Harry not using Necromancy is that he was already under enough scrutiny from the Council and at that point wasn't attempting to oppose them. But I am sure Bob would have thought Harry was being a moron - he normally thinks that anyway! And yes, perhaps it isn't the easiest bit of evocation to perform under pressure.
It was...but why go to Chicago? Are there not enough vulnerable Wizards out in the world? I get that Jim wanted to show him off...but it just felt a bit implausible. And why not pick LtW and River or Harry? Why pick the three least powerful? Not to mention...would any of those seem impressive to a being who has been alive for millennia? I agree we definitely need better explanation about this.
Yeah, exactly! After 16 years this is what Jim has to reveal? Quite the let down really. I don't know what's going on with Jim's writing, and I did despite my grumbling actually enjoy the latest few books on the whole. Unfortunately it just feels like because things have been going on so long Jim is making a lot of errors, and mostly because it seems he doesn't remember what the original idea was all that well or what he has previously said or written. Which is a bit understandable considering the length of time. Perhaps he should have written his own compendium of background info and world building, or instead of going to the wiki when he needs to remember come instead to this site and look through the WOJ section and the various threads.
Hopefully Jim will sort it out in a future book.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version